I just finished my brake system and the front wheels barely turn by hand when the car is on jack stands. I have to give it my all just to get them to turn. Is it because there is too much pressure up front? I have a brand new Kirbans stock replacement brass proportioning valve, all new stainless lines, factory rear drums, and the dual piston Blazer S-10 setup up front with the 11" rotors. I also have a brand new manual brake master cylinder. I bled the entire system one wheel at a time to get all the air out and my brake pedal is extremely firm. When I barely touch the pedal, the rear wheels will lock. They spin freely when I release the pedal. Wish I could say the same for the fronts. Do I need an adjustable prop valve? Or will the front wheels eventually loosen up as the pads wear down. Or is any of this normal for a manual brake setup?
Front wheels barely turn by hand after doing 11" brake upgrade
- Thread starter d0n_3d
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Is this with the wheels on or off? Have you check for caliper to wheel clearence? Did you chgange your master cylinder? If not, change the porportioning valve back and rebleed.
The master cylinder is a brand new Aerospace unit. I did bench bleed it before I installed it on the car. The wheels clear fine past the caliper and bracket assembly. I was able to turn the rotors by hand before I put the wheels on. Now that I got the wheels on, the one side turns somewhat, but the other wont turn at all. Why would bolting on the wheels make them harder to turn?
I'll loosen the bleeder screws up front and see if they will turn with the wheels on. If not, then I have another issue I would guess.
OK took the wheel off the side where it wasn't turning at all...
Loosened the bleeder screw and some brake fluid came out. So I re-tightened and then I was able to turn the rotor by hand.
I put the wheel back on without tightening the lugs and it still turned with some resistance. I tightened the lugs and was not able to turn the wheel at all again.
I see what is going on. When I tighten the wheel, it presses the rotor and pads back into the caliper bracket. I realize this is a floating rotor design, but the rotor isn't supposed to touch the bracket at all even when tightening the wheel. So what gives here?
When I had a helper try to turn the rotors by hand again without the wheels on...they would turn when I didn't touch the brake pedal. When I BARELY pressed the pedal down, the rotors would lock and wouldn't turn. When I released the brake pedal, they were turning again.
Loosened the bleeder screw and some brake fluid came out. So I re-tightened and then I was able to turn the rotor by hand.
I put the wheel back on without tightening the lugs and it still turned with some resistance. I tightened the lugs and was not able to turn the wheel at all again.
I see what is going on. When I tighten the wheel, it presses the rotor and pads back into the caliper bracket. I realize this is a floating rotor design, but the rotor isn't supposed to touch the bracket at all even when tightening the wheel. So what gives here?
When I had a helper try to turn the rotors by hand again without the wheels on...they would turn when I didn't touch the brake pedal. When I BARELY pressed the pedal down, the rotors would lock and wouldn't turn. When I released the brake pedal, they were turning again.
Are the pistons on the caliper bottomed out? If they are, your pads are wrong. If they arent, your porp valve or your master cylinder is blocking relief pressure. I'm betting the valve is bad.
Red Regal T
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Are you sure your wheels aren't rubbing on something, calipers, etc? You said, when you tighten the lugs the wheels won't turn, and it is a new setup. Possible?
Here's some pics...not sure if they will help but at least you can see what I am dealing with. Please note I am using a 1/2" wheel spacer to help clear my GTA wheels. They rub the caliper bracket if there is no spacer. That's not the issue here though. The issue is, when the wheel is bolted on, the rotor gets pushed up against the INSIDE portion of the caliper bracket and essentially locks up the wheel from turning. I can actually move the whole rotor assembly with my hands back and forth and there is like a 1/4" of play either way when I do it. Very hard to explain, but the caliper bracket itself does NOT move at all, it is the actual caliper, pads, and rotor that I can move in and out. The pads themselves are pushed up against both sides of the rotor like normal and there is no gap but the rotor WILL turn with some resistance.
If you notice I have some washers to help space out the caliper bracket bolt that bolts the bracket to the spindle...reason I did that was because the rotor was rubbing against the bracket before all of this crazyness started. I'll take out the washers and see if that helps but I don't think it will. There's just too much play.
Red Regal T
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Don, there's one more task you need to do. If you're going to run that spacer, you really need to replace those studs with 2" long replacement studs. That looks extremely dangerous to me.
The spacer pictured isn't all the way pressed against the rotor flange so I got another 3 threads or so more than what is pictured. When I bolt on the wheels, the studs stick out a good 3/4 inch past the mounting surface of the wheel. Seems to be OK. REAL GTA wheels are hard to make work on these cars!
The backspacing on them is ridiculous.
The backspacing on them is ridiculous.Red Regal T
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Are they fronts? Front GTA wheels? You need 4 fronts.
I have two fronts and two rears. The fronts are on the front and the rears are on the rear. I have to run a 3/4" spacer on the rear and a 1/2" spacer up front to run these wheels. Sounds crazy I know but its what I got.
So is it normal for me to be able to pull back and forth on the rotor/caliper/pad assembly? Like I said, the bracket stays put. What doesn't make sense is, if the calipers are bolted to the bracket, why is the caliper still able to move? I'm not an expert here by no means obviously. I thought I did everything right.
So is it normal for me to be able to pull back and forth on the rotor/caliper/pad assembly? Like I said, the bracket stays put. What doesn't make sense is, if the calipers are bolted to the bracket, why is the caliper still able to move? I'm not an expert here by no means obviously. I thought I did everything right.
Did the fluid shoot out or dribble out Don? If it shot out then you need new hoses. The liner is rotten holding fluid in and pressurizing the caliper. If it dribbled out hen the calipers are the issue.
scot w.
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From what you previously mentioned, My guess is that when you tighten up the lug nuts your pressing the rotor against the back pad. Judging from these pictures I'm not sure if this washer is removable or not but it just might solve it.. ???
SW.
SW.
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Not what I want to hear! The hoses are brand new from Russell (the braided kind). The calipers are new remans from Rock Auto (Raybestos brand).
Fluid didn't spray out but didn't ooze out. Just a real quick burp of fluid came out and that was it. When I was bleeding the lines, I didn't notice a restriction of flow in any of the wheels? Still doesn't explain why when I tighten the wheel, it presses the rotor up against the bracket. Are you saying the caliper is not holding enough pressure to hold the pad in place and thus why the rotor is pressing up against the bracket?
The way it sits right now...both pads are pressed against the rotor without the brake pedal being pressed down at all. If I barely touch the brake pedal, the pads lock onto the rotor and the rotor does not turn. When I release the pedal, I can turn the rotor again. Its only when I try to tighten the actual wheel is when the whole thing locks up.
I'll keep playing around and see what else I can find out. This is driving me nuts.
I'm going to remove those washers tomorrow and see if that helps any. Only reason why I put them there in the first place was because the rotor was rubbing up against the bracket before I started bleeding the system. So I figured I would add some added clearance with the washer. I'm sure they don't need to be there now. I guess some play is normal between the rotor assembly and calipers but not to the point where it rubs against the bracket upon tightening the wheels. That's what I don't get.
scot w.
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Take those washers out and take a picture of the rubbing area so we can see why it's doing that... That is why your wheel is spinning when NOT bolted tight and when completely installed and tight it isn't turning....My guess is,It's because the rotor is forced against the back pad!!
Scot W.
novaderrik
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put a couple of lug nuts on without the wheel and tighten it down. watch how the rotor moves as you draw the rotor in to the hub.
incubus2432
Douchebag
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I'm guessing that caliper mounting washer setup is the culprit as well. I had a similar issue on a Wilwood '67 Cougar from brake swap.
