Header and downpipe fitment Problem and Who makes these???

[agteacher]

I hope everybody had a Great CHRISTmas !!!!!! AND will have Great NEW YEAR!!!!
Question 1:
Who made these “mild steel” headers?
Problem:
I bought a parts car and the headers were included , I sent them to Jet-Hot Coating for the 2000degree “gray” coating. After installing on our 87 GN (bolted-up to block without any “massaging” very easy install) stock block/engine.
NEXT- was to install the downpipe (ATR part # 303 with internal wastegate ) here is where the PROBLEM lies…… The downpipe will not bolt-up to the exhaust housing on the turbo. There is a 1.5 to 1.75 inch gap between the flange on the downpipe and the tubro housing. The downpipe is touching/rubbing 2 spots on the headers---1st is the bandclamp on the crossover, 2nd is about 3 to 4 inches below the bandclamp on the crosspipe (see pictures).
After “much” adjusting, head rubbing and some bad words”---we removed the headers and reinstalled the Poston headers. We did not use “the hammer” to adjust because of the new Jet-Hot Coating on the headers. We thought about heating the downpipe to give a little room but due to the large gap (1.5 to 1.75inches), we decided not to mess-up the downpipe.
I have attached 2 pictures (neither of the 2 pictures are showing the headers bolted to the motor (we were a “little” upset at that time to thing about taking a picture). One of the pictures show 2 pieces of green tape, this is where the downpipe is touching/rubbing the header.
Question 2:
If we need another downpipe WHICH one or ones will FIT?????
Question 3:
How would we measure the headers--- to make sure we get the correct downpipe and to give the vendor the correct information before we order ( since they are NOT installed on the motor ).

THANKS for ALL the HELP!!!!!

 

[turbo nasty]

Those are NOT the TA headers.

They ARE the ATR/Kenne Bell type or the ebay knockoffs that copy the ATR/KB.

Cant help u on fitment issues

 

[agteacher]

Mild Steel -- not SS

Those are NOT the TA headers.

They ARE the ATR/Kenne Bell type or the ebay knockoffs that copy the ATR/KB.

Cant help u on fitment issues

All of the e-bay headers, that I have seen, are SS. These are mild steel and I "think" they are 5 to 10 year old (so, I was told by the owner of the parts car---but who know ), but I am not sure----ALL I know is my ATR pipe will not work.
Thanks for the info.:smile:

 

[TurboDave]

Those appear to be ATR headers.

Your problem lies in the fact that there were at the time two major downpipe manufacturers. ATR and Terry Houston.
Both of these manufacturers built two different pipes.
One designed to fit a stock headered motor.
The other to fit aftermarket headers.

You probably have downpipe designed for stock headers, and will in no way fit with aftermarket ATR style headers.

There is a company on Ebay selling reproductions of the THDP, and they make them in two styles. One for aftermarket header clearance and one for stock header clearance.

Wish I could remember their name. I'll post back if I figure it out.



Here's what I was trying to remember: eBay Motors: New Buick 3.8L V6 Grand National Downpipe ATR Header (item 120202671962 end time Jan-05-08 14:56:34 PST)

 

[agteacher]

Those appear to be ATR headers. Your problem lies in the fact that there were at the time two major downpipe manufacturers. ATR and Terry Houston.
Both of these manufacturers built two different pipes.
One designed to fit a stock headered motor.
The other to fit aftermarket headers.

You probably have downpipe designed for stock headers, and will in no way fit with aftermarket ATR style headers.

There is a company on Ebay selling reproductions of the THDP, and they make them in two styles. One for aftermarket header clearance and one for stock header clearance.

Wish I could remember their name. I'll post back if I figure it out.

Thanks, Dave to the info.
I have called a couple of the TB vendors, their reply was " probly will work" but they were not sure . I thought if I could give them some more info., MAYBE --I could get the correct-one the 1st time and EVERYBODY would be happy!!!
If you remember, give me a holler!

 

[ChavoLC2]

Atr's

Do you want to sell them? And let me worry about finding a compatable DP

 

[Phoneguy]

agteacher, PM sent

Bryan

 

[t-typex1]

Those appear to be ATR headers.

Your problem lies in the fact that there were at the time two major downpipe manufacturers. ATR and Terry Houston.
Both of these manufacturers built two different pipes.
One designed to fit a stock headered motor.
The other to fit aftermarket headers.

You probably have downpipe designed for stock headers, and will in no way fit with aftermarket ATR style headers.

There is a company on Ebay selling reproductions of the THDP, and they make them in two styles. One for aftermarket header clearance and one for stock header clearance.

Wish I could remember their name. I'll post back if I figure it out.



Here's what I was trying to remember: eBay Motors: New Buick 3.8L V6 Grand National Downpipe ATR Header (item 120202671962 end time Jan-05-08 14:56:34 PST)

SE Turbo makes a nice DP. I have one on my car. They make them for both style headers, let them know and they can set you up with the proper DP for headers

 

[agteacher]

Thanks

Thanks for all the suggestions.
I would like to keep the headers but I am a "little gun-shy" now. BUT "all is good" and Life will go-on!!!!
Will these headers "out perform" the Poston's headers on our car?
Or the Poston's just as good???
Thanks

 

[novaderrik]

is there any reason why you can't take the car to an exhaust shop to get the downpipe you have modified to clear the header?

 

[TurboDave]

is there any reason why you can't take the car to an exhaust shop to get the downpipe you have modified to clear the header?

I certainly wouldn't trust an exhaust shop to be able to accomplish that.
He would be WAY ahead selling the one he has and getting one designed to fit.

 

[Nick Micale]

Those are NOT the TA headers.

They ARE the ATR/Kenne Bell type or the ebay knockoffs that copy the ATR/KB.

This post is correct, a 3" DP will NOT work with these headers. There is a "special" 2 piece DP that was made to work with these headers, and it used the stock turbo elbow and WG puck.

 

[agteacher]

THANKS for the comments...but

This post is correct, a 3" DP will NOT work with these headers. There is a "special" 2 piece DP that was made to work with these headers, and it used the stock turbo elbow and WG puck.

OK, so now these headers are either ATR or KB( or a knock-off) ........WHO make a DP that will fit ??? I would think that "several people" are running these headers, so what dp are they using? AT this point in the fittment issue and the money we have in these headers ----Look's like we need a DOWNPIPE.......A NEW dp or A USED dp---Don't much matter to me ,. I just want to settle our header/dp issue and move-on to other projects---either FIND a new dp or a used dp or sell the headers and be HAPPY!!!!:D

THANKS for all the PMs and post.
I always tell my students-"Get as much info.--make a educated plan--and don't look back on what I SHOULD have done, but learn & MOVE-on"!!!!!!

Have a SAFE Holiday season and HAPPY New Year!!!!!!

 

[broke1]

This post is correct, a 3" DP will NOT work with these headers. There is a "special" 2 piece DP that was made to work with these headers, and it used the stock turbo elbow and WG puck.

Maybe we get parts from different people but I have 3" ATR dp's on both my cars,both made to fit ATR headers,1 int gate,1 ext gate AND THEYRE BOTH 1 PIECE DP's!!ATR did have a 2.5" that worked with the stock elbow...why anyone would buy headers and a 2.5" dp is beyond me!

Only person who made a 2 piece was Mease....at least when it comes to full 3" dp's.

SE Turbo can hook you up with a DP that fits and its made in the USA.

The DP made to fit ATR headers has a wide sweep where it comes off the exhaust housing.

Lemme get a pic of my car with stock headers and ATR dp made to clear ATR headers...

 

[scojack_2001]

I just went through this with the EBay headers on my buddies T-Type. Wouldnt fit worth a d@mn. Then we tried the old school Hooker headers, and couldnt make those work. Not that they didnt fit, we just couldnt figure them out. So he got a set of TA headers and everything is good. Then he had to get a TA downpipe becuase the 3" stock style wouldnt fit.

I would try finding the proper DP.

 

[broke1]

My car with stock headers and ATR 3" dp made for ATR headers

You can clearly see it swings out alot farther.

Heres the clearance for the ATR x over

SE Turbo has the DP that will fit.When I was up there last year I saw he had several pipes to fit ATR headers and several to fit stock headers.

 

[agteacher]

Pictures...THANKS

broke1.....THANKS for the pictures and the info on the DP, I wll call SEturbo. I wonder if anybody else sells one that will fit our headers?
THANKS again

 

[broke1]

Tig Masters and SE Turbo are the only American made new DP's out there to clear ATR headers.

Any polished DP or part is from China....

 

[turbofrank]

Tigmasters is out of business.

 

[Nick Micale]

From your pic, it cannot be determined if these are K-B or early ATR headers.

If they are K-B headers, they fit different than the ATR's, but are similar in appearance.

I recently removed a set from the white T which was the original K-B test mule, and it had a very special elbow and unique 2-piece down pipe. I could not get an ATR style DP to fit, that is why we replaced the headers.