HOTAIRGNX548 1/8 MILE TIME

[hotairgnx548]

First congrats John that is awesome!

Second there has some comments made that were truly uncalled for.

Only a few people are out there helping out the Hot Air folks and Pat is one of them. A simple search on SloGN one would find write ups , videos, pics and fact based comments Pat has contributed. His car has been a test for products and he has done quite of few things people have said can't be done.

He has a 9 sec daily driven GN that he will drive an hour or, two to the track race it, autocross it whatever , then drive home in ice cold AC and a jamming stereo system, it's not built from someone's List of go fast parts but from breaking his own. Drive or tow your car's to Richards shop anytime you'll find him flowing testing working on power masters pulling motors and trannys, call him on the phone and he is ALWAYS there for someone! I haven't seen him get paid or hide secrets but at the track you'll see him working on several peoples cars and helping them tune, He is just,that kind of guy to the Turbo Buick community and deserving of appreciation!


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I will say this I have never withheld any mods I've made on my car and I have helped many people over the 29 years I have owed my car and have had people help me. I don't know what the dude expects. Like more than one person has stated read the information, come to the Nats with your car some one will help or show you what they did

 

[turbonut85]

I will say this I have never withheld any mods I've made on my car and I have helped many people over the 29 years I have owed my car and have had people help me. I don't know what the dude expects. Like more than one person has stated read the information, come to the Nats with your car some one will help or show you what they did

Again...a big congrats to you on your accomplishment. I'm not sure who "the dude" is you are referring to, but if its me, I think I am being mistaken by many in this thread. I was not calling anyone out, nor asking for anything, let alone anything for free. I think what the newer generation of hot air owners are looking for is this: when someone crosses a milestone, they start asking questions like "what were the intake mods that were done?" And they ask in the hopes that the response is: "well there are many different things that can be done with the hot air intakes....from mild porting, to fully gutting, to partial gutting coupled with porting and flowing...depending on what your goals are. And this is the person(s) you can contact if you are serious about getting it done or if you need help doing some of it yourself."
I think it gets forgotten in this forum that the people who have made strides in the hot air area have been around for a long time. Not all of the newer generation people know who they are, let alone what each particular person did or posted....so they don't know what to even search for. I've been in this section since 2008.....and I just now made the connection of "Pat" as "SloGN".....lol. I guess at the end of the day, people would just appreciate a nudge in the right direction instead if being told to "figure it out on your own and good luck." That's all.
Please don't take this post as flaming anyone or trying to stir up shit.....that's not my intention. Just trying to be the connection between the veterans and the noobs.....as I am neither. ---Keith

 

[SloGN]

There is no need to for a flaming war........... It's all good here on my end. But as many have stated the info has been around for quite a while. It seems if all the noobs in the hot-air section that post is how can i intercool my car..........There is tons of threads on that subject too.......


But if anyone wants to know what to do to the intakes i'll direct them in there travels...


But you also got to understand that this very subject is a tender piece.....I have been subjected many flaming my self over what i doing and how i was simply destroying rare parts and the etc..... But there is a few of these intakes out there and there working pretty decent from the feedback i have received......


anyhow hope everyone here has a Great Day!

 

[Jerryl]

Don’t want to take this this thread of course, but have to share a few things.

Never met SloGN but he reached out to me to offer assistance with a totally unrelated issue. We have all read about the countless hours he puts into other peoples cars in his spare time, and at the track. I freely admit to be one of the skeptical ones on the intake mods when SloGN posted info in this very forum, as there were conflicting results posted from years ago. However, no one can argue with results.

I wanted to take this opportunity to personally and publicly thank SloGn for his contributions on the HA specific info, and his never ending sharing of knowledge.
Pretty damn good for a guy who does not own a HA, yet willing to go the distance! How many people can you say that about?

 

[turbonut85]

It's all good. I get it. Maybe one of these days my hot air will be something to raise an eyebrow to.....I doubt it....but maybe.

And I too grow weary of all the "how do I IC my hot air" threads as well...lol.

 

[bison]

I have been subjected many flaming my self over what i doing and how i was simply destroying rare parts

Haha. Back in the 90's I probably scrapped 5 of those intakes. I know I sold one for $10. I wonder how many "rare parts" I destroyed?


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[SloGN]

Haha. Back in the 90's I probably scrapped 5 of those intakes. I know I sold one for $10. I wonder how many "rare parts" I destroyed?


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Hahaha

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[SloGN]

Thanks for the comments guys....


But let's take the light off of me and put it back on John Bruce for the awesomeness of the pass at the track....




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[cwmccray]

Guys, we are a PASSIONATE bunch. Each have paid their dues. When a Hot Air Brother (and Sister) crosses the 10 second zone, some people want you to explain every detail. Back in the "day" this forum was VERY BRUTAL... As we have gotten older (and our cars) we are all in the same boat... Making our cars faster. Newbies are going to have have to put in "some work" and some SEARCH functions. We are down to less than a handful of vendors.. So with this being said, making your car fast is going to take some determination and MONEY... I am a Engineer (Electrical by trade) and I wished I had of studied harder than I did. These turbo cars are wrecking havoc everywhere and Buick started it all.

 

[cwmccray]

It's all good. I get it. Maybe one of these days my hot air will be something to raise an eyebrow to.....I doubt it....but maybe.

And I too grow weary of all the "how do I IC my hot air" threads as well...lol.

Even if you put a intercooler on a Hot Air, IT IS NOT a 86/87. The HOT AIR configuration is unique and does not like a lot of timing. Newbies figure if I add this intercooler it will be fast... Alky, NOS, Propane, CO2 and water, all can be used as a intercooler... But if you CANNOT tune your car, you will not go fast.

 

[SloGN]

Don’t want to take this this thread of course, but have to share a few things.

Never met SloGN but he reached out to me to offer assistance with a totally unrelated issue. We have all read about the countless hours he puts into other peoples cars in his spare time, and at the track. I freely admit to be one of the skeptical ones on the intake mods when SloGN posted info in this very forum, as there were conflicting results posted from years ago. However, no one can argue with results.

I wanted to take this opportunity to personally and publicly thank SloGn for his contributions on the HA specific info, and his never ending sharing of knowledge.
Pretty damn good for a guy who does not own a HA, yet willing to go the distance! How many people can you say that about?

Thanks...

I have used Esinger's car for all my bases of data and then flow bench testing.

I owned a 84 hot air way back several yrs ago...I wished I would have kept it. I sold it and then I got blowed up and then sold again and now has a Chevy in it .......

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[hotairgnx548]

Again...a big congrats to you on your accomplishment. I'm not sure who "the dude" is you are referring to, but if its me, I think I am being mistaken by many in this thread. I was not calling anyone out, nor asking for anything, let alone anything for free. I think what the newer generation of hot air owners are looking for is this: when someone crosses a milestone, they start asking questions like "what were the intake mods that were done?" And they ask in the hopes that the response is: "well there are many different things that can be done with the hot air intakes....from mild porting, to fully gutting, to partial gutting coupled with porting and flowing...depending on what your goals are. And this is the person(s) you can contact if you are serious about getting it done or if you need help doing some of it yourself."
I think it gets forgotten in this forum that the people who have made strides in the hot air area have been around for a long time. Not all of the newer generation people know who they are, let alone what each particular person did or posted....so they don't know what to even search for. I've been in this section since 2008.....and I just now made the connection of "Pat" as "SloGN".....lol. I guess at the end of the day, people would just appreciate a nudge in the right direction instead if being told to "figure it out on your own and good luck." That's all.
Please don't take this post as flaming anyone or trying to stir up shit.....that's not my intention. Just trying to be the connection between the veterans and the noobs.....as I am neither. ---Keith

Turbonut no problem with your comments someone else implyed I wouldnt tell hot air guys things. Thanks John. You are correct in pointing out Pat's determination in helping other people. John

 

[cwmccray]

Thanks...

I have used Esinger's car for all my bases of data and then flow bench testing.

I owned a 84 hot air way back several yrs ago...I wished I would have kept it. I sold it and then I got blowed up and then sold again and now has a Chevy in it .......

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SloGN ... Thank you and countless others who have fought to keep HOT AIR Technology around... My Hat is off to you! Many people figure that there is MAGIC to a Turbo Car... And there really is some MAGIC! If you can "get your HEAD" around how a Hot Air works, you can tune anything! John (hotairgnx548) has a 10 sec time slip in his back pocket. Esinger also has his slip waiting to be cashed in . I suspect TURBONUT and BOOSTMASTER will added to this group soon.You have spent many nights flowing and testing HOT AIR intakes and it is paying off. Your research with 86-87 intake showed the blueprint to retooling the HOT AIR intake to run the numbers needed get in the 10's. We all have "Detemination" to make our cars faster...

Back to John's accomplishment... Great work! I can only imagine when you sort this combo and possibly run on E85! This year at Bowling Green could be VERY interesting, 10sec Hot Airs...

 

[charlief1]

The way people are today they want instant results and expect a 10 second slip out of antiquated equipment. How many times have any of us seen the newby post, "I just got a stock (fill in blank) and want to know what parts I can bolt on to go 10's." With the newer operating systems and engines it's surprisingly easy to hit 10's with very few bolt ons, and 99% of the newbys don't realize that these systems take work and understanding to get there. The fact that John is one of the very few that's done it so far tells me he not only understands how they work, but has spent a butt load of time and $ getting there. It's just a handfull of people that've have done this so far and others want to do it as quickly as possible, and most of them fail, so they drop out.

Those that stick with it get aggravated with the failures that they've had and will put the car away and try to figure out what happened so it doesn't occur again. Those are the ones you see getting quicker and quicker each time they complete a new mod until they're satisfied with what they have. Those that are still trying to get all their ducks in a row take the time to do the research that's needed and then ask questions, while those that are lazy want to just ask what's the easiest way to get there. That's what's so aggravating. The guys that expect an answer from someone that's already spent the time and effort to get the results you're seeing John get, and that's one of the reasons some mods aren't shared readily with others.

 

[turbo6x2]

Jamie ...Pat and Richard did my intake and you are right I love it also put a 62/66 precision on it after my turbo wheel got ate up by some spark plug straps. I think I'm getting close to 10 sec run had a problem Sat night and didn't get any alchol durning the run but I think I have the problem solved. Say Hi to Karl for me. See ya soon ! John

I realize you had Pat do your intake, I was there remember? LOL I was just pointing out to the rest of the board if they wanted a ported intake G Body does sale them and took the time to have them done. I will let Karl know, hoping we finally chased down the last gremlin here and can get back to some serious racing again. You will have your 10"s I suspect before October, I know It.

 

[jdpolzin]

Charlie, how fast is your car now?

 

[charlief1]

Charlie, how fast is your car now?

Fast enough for me right now Jeremy. How's your draw through car coming along?

 

[jdpolzin]

Fast enough for me right now Jeremy. How's your draw through car coming along?

No draw through's in my garage Charlie. Just the Stage, Monte, and truck and hopefully it will stay that way. So, you've been talking about quite a few mods that you've been testing, is your car running now? I've been curious to see some test results from one set up to another. How are you testing these different set ups? Dyno tuning, track times, flow benches, etc? There are a lot of people on this board that like to run their mouths about how "we are testing this and that in our shop" and such. I know the internet is an easy way for people to try to make themselves feel more important than they really are, and sometimes that's cool, I guess. BUT right now I have some things I'm trying to work out on a Hot Air that has already put down some serious low boost dyno numbers. With Tom @ Champion flaking out on things lately, I cant even get ahold of him. I need to put in some solid tunes and this debate over the intake in this section is so up and down and "secretive" and all over the place, Its a joke. We have an issue with knock after 22 psi and this knock shouldn't be there. I've tuned and done what I can but there's something else going on. I don't know if its the Champion hot air intake. It may be. I'm wondering if this intake was even tested at all before it was put out there as an "improvement." I don't know if compression ratio has an effect with one intake over another.

Why in this section, is there only a few people that will actually show results, ideas, and such? I've had my hand on plenty of builds in IC cars and yes I've come up with a few ideas that have made serious changes but most of my success with getting a car faster is from reading, then maye putting my own little twist on it. Or just doing exactly what someone else did because it was a great idea. This section lacks a lot because the Hot Air cars aren't very popular, there isn't a whole lot of people going fast, and quite frankly not a lot of people care about hot airs. Some of us do though. I used to IC them. With the difference that E85 makes in them, I see a lot of potential.

Just need some ACTUAL results.

Example, the TFW just dynoed a lightly modded car that switched from 100 octane to E85 while on the dyno. No changes, but 50 more HP at 471RWHP. Stock unopened motor, single Walbro, 6265, 80# injectors, THDP, cold air kit, 30psi.


What is the stock compression ratio in a Hot Air block? Is an original Hot Air intake designed, tested, and implemented because GM engineers tested it to match? Is changing a hot air intake hurting it? Is Tom's hogged out design just making a slush bowl effect and hurting flow? I think it is. But I have no way to directly test between the two.

 

[SloGN]

No draw through's in my garage Charlie. Just the Stage, Monte, and truck and hopefully it will stay that way. So, you've been talking about quite a few mods that you've been testing, is your car running now? I've been curious to see some test results from one set up to another. How are you testing these different set ups? Dyno tuning, track times, flow benches, etc? There are a lot of people on this board that like to run their mouths about how "we are testing this and that in our shop" and such. I know the internet is an easy way for people to try to make themselves feel more important than they really are, and sometimes that's cool, I guess. BUT right now I have some things I'm trying to work out on a Hot Air that has already put down some serious low boost dyno numbers. With Tom @ Champion flaking out on things lately, I cant even get ahold of him. I need to put in some solid tunes and this debate over the intake in this section is so up and down and "secretive" and all over the place, Its a joke. We have an issue with knock after 22 psi and this knock shouldn't be there. I've tuned and done what I can but there's something else going on. I don't know if its the Champion hot air intake. It may be. I'm wondering if this intake was even tested at all before it was put out there as an "improvement." I don't know if compression ratio has an effect with one intake over another.

Why in this section, is there only a few people that will actually show results, ideas, and such? I've had my hand on plenty of builds in IC cars and yes I've come up with a few ideas that have made serious changes but most of my success with getting a car faster is from reading, then maye putting my own little twist on it. Or just doing exactly what someone else did because it was a great idea. This section lacks a lot because the Hot Air cars aren't very popular, there isn't a whole lot of people going fast, and quite frankly not a lot of people care about hot airs. Some of us do though. I used to IC them. With the difference that E85 makes in them, I see a lot of potential.

Just need some ACTUAL results.

Example, the TFW just dynoed a lightly modded car that switched from 100 octane to E85 while on the dyno. No changes, but 50 more HP at 471RWHP. Stock unopened motor, single Walbro, 6265, 80# injectors, THDP, cold air kit, 30psi.


What is the stock compression ratio in a Hot Air block? Is an original Hot Air intake designed, tested, and implemented because GM engineers tested it to match? Is changing a hot air intake hurting it? Is Tom's hogged out design just making a slush bowl effect and hurting flow? I think it is. But I have no way to directly test between the two.

I can attest that toms intake flows way better than a stock untouched manifold. The results are posted in the interesting numbers thread in general tech. Along with testing of various plenums and power plate combos.

I think the reason you might be seeing knock is the amount of heat you may be generating is causing this regardless of E85 or not. Esingers car seems to hit a wall at around 26-27 psi and this is due to the amount of heat. He is spraying meth like crazy and it helps but only for a period of time . In a 1/8 mile pass he maxes out the air temp reading ability. His car seems to perform way better when the air temps are down in the low 220's . I'm currently thinking about moving some nozzles around to see if we can't help resolve this problem.


I really think the biggest problem is the heat source is so close to the manifold and the placement of the nozzles is very critical because there is so little time for heat transfer to take place to help reduce the heat levels. This is simply my thoughts here. i hope to have some data to show this but in due time. I think this could be the E-85's down fall as well since it only has the little amount that the injector is spraying into the intake tract. so themamount of time there for it to flash off is very very little.


Just think of this for every 1 psi of pressure you add 11 degrees of heat. Sometimes more if the turbo is running in a area where its not happy. so your 22 psi is 242 degrees maybe more. this is the biggest problem. we fight this at every turn. I really think the best hot air set-up is a 9.5 cr engine with a compressor sized to move the most amount of air in the 18-20 psi range to help keep the heat to a manageable level with alky spray.

I do my intake vary similar to toms except for i don't cut out the center dividing wall completely due to my machine can't cut down that far. When on a flow bench this shows to have no effect of equal air flow in all of the cylinders or on the total flow.


HTH

Pat Broughton

 

[jdpolzin]

Do you happen to know what a factory HA block and pistons yeild for compression?