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I am so sick of this car

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excobraguy

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
859
Sorry, I have to vent a little..........
Had a bad head gasket........replaced them this weekend. Everything went great with the install. I took my time, torqued everything just right as you are supposed to. I took extra care with everything I did, everything. The car was previously making like a lifter type of noise and eventually started leaking water out the tailpipe, that's why I put on the new head gaskets. I thought the noise was due to the exahsut leaking from the head on the passenger side, well guess what? The noise is still there, after I have put the new head gaskets on!!!!!! What a PITA this is.........I am so sick of this car and I was sure the noise was not the lifters or I would have replaced them as well, but I didn't.....I wish I would of. And now for some reason, my coolant temp is going up in the 210 range where it used to stay around 180-190. It was 102 degrees here today but I drove the car previously and it stayed in the 190's at the 102+ degree days. I tried getting the gooseneck out of the intake when I had it apart to install a new thermostat when I had it apart, but it wouldn't come out. I'm sure the thermostat was fine though as it is not that old.....

Anyway, I'm frustrated. Rather than enjoying this car, all I am doing is working on it every weekend! It's really bothering me as I have my new Alky Control alcohol kit waiting to go in, but I ain't gonna put it in until I get these issues figured out.........

So if you read my story, here are my questions:

1) What lifters do guys run that are proven to not make noise?????
2) If I leave a ticking lifter in a car will it eventually fail???? Why do they tick?
3) I'm running Dexcool 100% in my radiator, is this OK does anyone else run this coolant with no problems????

Thanks guys............I appreciate any replies!
Dean

p.s. I'm trying to continue to love my car, but it ain't making it easy!!!!!!
 
Assuming you have a flat tappet cam, go with GM lifters. They are expensive, but worth it. The ones Mike sells at fullspeedthrottle.com are good ones too. Try removing your valve covers and watch the rockers and pushrods with the engine idling. See if they all look alike in their movement. Look for something different from the other lifters and pushrods. You could have a wiped lope. Dump the Dexcool and go with Prestone. Most guys just run distilled water and RMI in the warmer months.
Turbo Buicks are famous for ticking noises. Don't assume it's a lifter. What about exhaust leaks, cam sensor, crank sensor, etc.
 
Assuming you have a flat tappet cam, go with GM lifters. They are expensive, but worth it. The ones Mike sells at fullspeedthrottle.com are good ones too. Try removing your valve covers and watch the rockers and pushrods with the engine idling. See if they all look alike in their movement. Look for something different from the other lifters and pushrods. You could have a wiped lope. Dump the Dexcool and go with Prestone. Most guys just run distilled water and RMI in the warmer months.
Turbo Buicks are famous for ticking noises. Don't assume it's a lifter. What about exhaust leaks, cam sensor, crank sensor, etc.

I have put new gaskets everywhere as well, intake, exhaust, anywhere an exhaust leak could happen....still the same noise. Dexcool is made by Prestone, not sure if you knew that with your comment. Yeah, I wish I had checked the lobes when I had the intake off, I checked a couple of them out and they looked good........What is RMI??? Also, how much are the GM lifters???
 
Dexcool was developed for aluminum blocks and heads. Do a search. Here's one of many links: Tech - DexCool Coolant - TurboBuicks.com

Check your 3/5 split on the ds manifold. It's famous for cracking a making a ticking noise. You can still check the lifters and lobes by observing the rockers and pushrods with the engine running.
Remove the serpentine belt and run the engine. If the tick is still there, it will eliminate everything that is belt driven. Also, put a screwdriver on the cam sensor and the other end to your ear. I'm just trying to give you ideas where most of the ticks come from.

RMI is a coolant additive that will keep your system clean and happy. It's used widely in the Buick community and sold by many Buick vendors.
 
Do not replace lifters unless you replace the cam with it. All lifters tick in fast ramp cams from my experiences with Buicks. The stockers are usually quiet but they are occasionally noisey too. If you have noisey lifters and the cam lobes are all good (no lash) i would pull them one at a time, disassemble, clean the internals with laquer thinner, oil the internals, assemble, and reinstall them in the same lobes as they came from. Do not put new lifters on a used cam. If you do there is a great possibility of lobe failure.
 
Do not replace lifters unless you replace the cam with it. All lifters tick in fast ramp cams from my experiences with Buicks. The stockers are usually quiet but they are occasionally noisey too. If you have noisey lifters and the cam lobes are all good (no lash) i would pull them one at a time, disassemble, clean the internals with laquer thinner, oil the internals, assemble, and reinstall them in the same lobes as they came from. Do not put new lifters on a used cam. If you do there is a great possibility of lobe failure.

I hear what you're saying but the car didn't tick when I first got it, it had around 3000 miles on a brand new engine. Could they have just worn enough now that they are ticking?????
 
Head gaskets

Why did you replace the head gaskets?

Did you think that was the tick?

How does the car run?

I would drive it for awhile and see how it does.

These motor do have a classic tick.

Den
 
Don't give up yet. My car had issues for 5 years straight - I stuck it out. Started with a tranny rebuild. Was done wrong. Another tranny rebuild by same guy. My mistake there. Still done wrong. In meantime had gaskets blew twice. Finally got the motor together and I have a slight tick. Am using new stock 'jobber' cam and GM lifters - have a bit of tick. Finally got tranny done RIGHT and now it runs awesome. Stick it through. When in doubt, just change the part, especially if you've got the motor open.
 
Why did you replace the head gaskets?

Did you think that was the tick?

How does the car run?

I would drive it for awhile and see how it does.

These motor do have a classic tick.

Den

The car started throwing water out the tailpipe is why I replaced the gaskets. The car runs OK. It's just this ticking noise that sounds like and exhaust leak.......I checked both headers when I had them off, they are fine.....
 
Don't give up yet. My car had issues for 5 years straight - I stuck it out. Started with a tranny rebuild. Was done wrong. Another tranny rebuild by same guy. My mistake there. Still done wrong. In meantime had gaskets blew twice. Finally got the motor together and I have a slight tick. Am using new stock 'jobber' cam and GM lifters - have a bit of tick. Finally got tranny done RIGHT and now it runs awesome. Stick it through. When in doubt, just change the part, especially if you've got the motor open.


I hear ya, but I don't have the extra cash to keep feeding this thing.......I bought the car to keep and sell later when the value goes up.......I'm just gonna have to sell it. I can't afford the time or money on this thing anymore.......I don't know if the lifter tick is a larger problem or not, the car does run great, just this tick is what is hampering it.........
 
3000 mi has..

I hear what you're saying but the car didn't tick when I first got it, it had around 3000 miles on a brand new engine. Could they have just worn enough now that they are ticking?????

nothing to do with the cam going flat.
It takes seconds to do the initial damage, on start up. The problem may become apparent after a 10 mile drive, or, as in your case 3000 mi.

In checking the headers, did you take the heat shields off the dr side, and look VERY closely? [A royal PITA, but absolutely necessary to do.]
As for the pass side, as mentioned, they crack in the bellows area. This is also VERY difficult to see, as the stainless is a cheapo material, and the oxidation can cover the crack. I always glas bead them, B4 I reinstall.. Makes it very easy to see any problems.
X-over connections are also suspect, as is the pipe itself..
 
Maybe this will help:confused: A long, long time ago I had a car with a ticking lifter, Buick 350. I used some engine flush and then changed the type of oil I was using. Must have bee dirt, went away and never came back.

Sometimes, it is the easy stuff.

Rich
 
Another way to check if it is an exhaust leak is the rubber hose method. Just get a piece of hose, and move it along the headers and listen with the other end in your ear.
 
Hey Dean.
I feel your pain.
Tracking down issues like yours can be killer. I bet you have a crack on your drivers side header between #3 & #5 tubes where they come together. Very common on cars with stock headers. Do the rubber hose test and find the leak. That is, if you still have stock headers on the car. If it's not a header or cross over pipe connection leak, then it might be valve train noise. Don't change the lifters without changing the cam. You will wipe one or all of the cam lobes if you do. Each lifter developes a wear pattern on it's corresponding lobe when they are first installed and broke in. If you install new lifters that have no wear pattern onto a used or previously run cam, that already has a wear pattern, it will wipe the lobes in about 20 minutes of just idling. If you are 100% sure it's the lifters, then replace the cam and lifters together. For lifters, I only recommend OEM GM from the parts counter at a dealership. A little pricey, but I've had the best success with them. Cam, your call, but I've had my best luck with Comp Cams hydraulic flat tappet cams. But, here is one thing I would recommend especially with your current heat conditions. Change the oil out to Valvoline VR-1 20w50, and add a bottle of Blue STP oil additive for the extra zinc protection and see if your lifter noise goes away. My lifters were making some slight noise earlier this year and after doing this, I now have zero noise. It's worth a shot, especially with your heat and how it tends to really thin up 10w30. RMI is RMI-25. It is a radiator additive that helps clean and protect your cooling system. It's the best additive for cooling systems out there. A million times better than Redlines' Water Wetter. I don't think you will find it locally, most people just order it from Nick Micale. I've run it for years with great success. It will lower your temps in seriously hot climates. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/members/nick-micale.html

Another thing, about your overheating issue, did you properly refill the radiator? Fill it up, let it idle with the cap off until the t-stat opened up and the water level drops, then top off the rad again and keep topping it off until it levels off and stops dropping. Then put the cap on. This is the method I've used for filling the system after repairs such as yours. You might have air trapped inside your intake and or coolant passages that is causing the hotter temps. With the car cold, check your coolant level in the rad. If it's dropped way down, top it off as that could be your issue. One other thing, are you still running the factory fan relays and delay relay? One high speed fan relay, one low speed fan relay, and the big delay relay all located on the drivers side inner fender. When you turn on the AC, does your fan kick on high speed? You could have a bad high speed relay and or malfunctioning delay relay that's not letting the fan run at high speed and the rad and fan can't cool it down under this crazy heat.
Just a few thoughts. Don't give up yet. Don't just install new lifters, that will wipe the lobes on your used cam. You have an excellent resource in MS too help you diagnose these issues. His name is Geoff Burroughs. He is the owner of Jackson Cylinder Head Service located off of Terry Rd in Jackson. He knows Buicks and is a friend of mine. Give him a call. 601-353-1014
He can help you get it figured out, and can definitely help you determine what the noise is.
Hope some of this helps.

Patrick
 
Easy way to find an exhaust leak do the smoke test.
Buy 2 cans of Seafoam:
Undo the plenum pipe and pour 1/2 the seafoam slowly into the warm idling engine the last half dump in and have someone shut the car as you do it. Let car sit 10 mins and restart.
it will smoke out the whole street so do it where someone wont call the FD.
You will see smoke come out of any exhaust crack or bad seal.
With the second can add to oil as directed to clean any sludge, varnish or gunk (within reason) in there.
 
Hey Dean.
I feel your pain.
Tracking down issues like yours can be killer. I bet you have a crack on your drivers side header between #3 & #5 tubes where they come together. Very common on cars with stock headers. Do the rubber hose test and find the leak. That is, if you still have stock headers on the car. If it's not a header or cross over pipe connection leak, then it might be valve train noise. Don't change the lifters without changing the cam. You will wipe one or all of the cam lobes if you do. Each lifter developes a wear pattern on it's corresponding lobe when they are first installed and broke in. If you install new lifters that have no wear pattern onto a used or previously run cam, that already has a wear pattern, it will wipe the lobes in about 20 minutes of just idling. If you are 100% sure it's the lifters, then replace the cam and lifters together. For lifters, I only recommend OEM GM from the parts counter at a dealership. A little pricey, but I've had the best success with them. Cam, your call, but I've had my best luck with Comp Cams hydraulic flat tappet cams. But, here is one thing I would recommend especially with your current heat conditions. Change the oil out to Valvoline VR-1 20w50, and add a bottle of Blue STP oil additive for the extra zinc protection and see if your lifter noise goes away. My lifters were making some slight noise earlier this year and after doing this, I now have zero noise. It's worth a shot, especially with your heat and how it tends to really thin up 10w30. RMI is RMI-25. It is a radiator additive that helps clean and protect your cooling system. It's the best additive for cooling systems out there. A million times better than Redlines' Water Wetter. I don't think you will find it locally, most people just order it from Nick Micale. I've run it for years with great success. It will lower your temps in seriously hot climates. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/members/nick-micale.html

Another thing, about your overheating issue, did you properly refill the radiator? Fill it up, let it idle with the cap off until the t-stat opened up and the water level drops, then top off the rad again and keep topping it off until it levels off and stops dropping. Then put the cap on. This is the method I've used for filling the system after repairs such as yours. You might have air trapped inside your intake and or coolant passages that is causing the hotter temps. With the car cold, check your coolant level in the rad. If it's dropped way down, top it off as that could be your issue. One other thing, are you still running the factory fan relays and delay relay? One high speed fan relay, one low speed fan relay, and the big delay relay all located on the drivers side inner fender. When you turn on the AC, does your fan kick on high speed? You could have a bad high speed relay and or malfunctioning delay relay that's not letting the fan run at high speed and the rad and fan can't cool it down under this crazy heat.
Just a few thoughts. Don't give up yet. Don't just install new lifters, that will wipe the lobes on your used cam. You have an excellent resource in MS too help you diagnose these issues. His name is Geoff Burroughs. He is the owner of Jackson Cylinder Head Service located off of Terry Rd in Jackson. He knows Buicks and is a friend of mine. Give him a call. 601-353-1014
He can help you get it figured out, and can definitely help you determine what the noise is.
Hope some of this helps.

Patrick


Thanks for the reply. I will take off the headers again and check them thoroughly for cracks. I'm not sure if the headers are stock or not to be honest. I bought the car roughly 2 months ago and the previous owner had made all of the mods. He did mention replacing the drivers side header because of a crack, he didn't say what he put back on it. Thanks for the info on changing lifters and cam together. I may just pull the engine and do everything for myself. I just hate the fact that this is hindering the car like this! I have VR-1 20W50 in it now.........I can try the additive, might be a simple test at least.

As far as the coolant, yeah I let it start circulating and added coolant as it needed it. I also filled the overflow tank and checked it this morning, it and the radiator are full of Dexcool. Which I will probably remove based on what I read about it :frown: cause at 11.99 a gallon, it was expensive to fill up with it. I'll check the fan relay, I didn't know it was 2 speeds like you describe, that's interesting. I don't really notice it ever changing speeds......by the way, I am in Missouri..........thanks for the great info, much appreciated!
 
Easy way to find an exhaust leak do the smoke test.
Buy 2 cans of Seafoam:
Undo the plenum pipe and pour 1/2 the seafoam slowly into the warm idling engine the last half dump in and have someone shut the car as you do it. Let car sit 10 mins and restart.
it will smoke out the whole street so do it where someone wont call the FD.
You will see smoke come out of any exhaust crack or bad seal.
With the second can add to oil as directed to clean any sludge, varnish or gunk (within reason) in there.

I read this test in another thread and thought about doing it. I probably will do it just because it is much easier than the alternative, tearing back into the engine! It sound so much like an exhaust leak but I swear I have checked everywhere for the damn noise and replaced all exhaust gaskets possible!!!!! I guess I'll try it and see what happens. Thanks for the input.
 
Ok well you did what i almost did. That water coming out of your exhaust is condensation. IT was probably not a headgasket. Were one of them blown when you removed them? Your ticking noise is either your cam sensor or a leaky headers set up. My ticking noise ended up being the crossover. BUICK lifters are known for having a slight tick get used to it, it will always be there it may get quieter but it is still there.

If you only bought this car to sell it when it gains value my recommendation is to sell it and get a good 401k. These cars will never be worth a ton more than they already are, there are far better investments.

The last little bit i will add is if you don't truly love these cars give up now and sell. I have dreamed about owning a turbo-t since i was 10 years old. Finally at 24 i found one i could afford. I have spent the last two years working on it and have driven it a total of 3k miles. You work on them alot and you gotta love em to work on em.

Oh yeah and take out the dexcool it is not made for our engines. USE PRESTONE in the yellow bottle. Dexcool is for new GM cars not old ones.
 
Oh yeah and take out the dexcool it is not made for our engines. USE PRESTONE in the yellow bottle. Dexcool is for new GM cars not old ones.

I agree, get rid of the Dexcool. I also noted you are running 100% Dexcool with no water :confused: Never run a mix more than 50%. Pure coolant does not cool as well as water.
 
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