Install height on beehive springs

[MAX PSI]

I'm insalling the springs on stock iron heads wiyh Manley valves. The springs are Comp #26918-12 retainers are #787-12 and the locks are #601-12. The recomended Install height is 1.800". My problem is that I only have 1.660". The stock install height is 1.715"- 1.705". I don't want to cut the spring seats .140" and would hit water if I did. Even with a 1.660" install height I'll still have .030 clearance befor coil bind. I can get another set of locks to get me at the 1.715" height. I know others have used this setup. What was their install height? Would you run them at 1.660" for extra seat pressure? If not would run them at 1.715"?

 

[MAX PSI]

anyone?

Anyone?
I can get a Crane #99095-1 lock that has a .050" higher groove that will get me to 1.710".

 

[750H.P.V6]

Phil,

I discussed this same issue with Tom at Champion when I wanted to change springs on my Aluminum heads. Since the Bee Hive springs are designed for a different application the installed height is taller.

I would say that based on your statement you don't have enough clearance at max lift. I would tell you to use a + .050 keeper to increase the installed height. If you install the springs at 1.710" what kind of seat pressure and open pressure does it give you?

Neal

 

[Chuck Leeper]

BEEEEHIVEZ

I installed mine at 1.700, on Champ alums, w/ the std location 10* retainers and locks.
They are 170# seat, and 390#open at .550 lift.[CC hyd roller.. 218/212]
I picked up 1100 rpm, had no more noise than before in the valvetrain. No other changes, car went from 10.20's @ 131 to 9.90's @ 141..
I am also using them on my new, 528" HEMI engine..

 

[MAX PSI]

Neal, With the +.050 keepers at 1.710" I'll have .081" clearance before coil bind. Advertised coil bind is at 1.085". Lift on the intake is .544" exhuast is .536". I don't know what the seat pressure is at 1.710" because I don't have a spring tester. I would have to run the springs down to the machine shop to test them. I'm afraid to cut that much (.100") out of the spring seats, don't want to hit water.
What did you end up doing with yours? I will call Comp Cams and find out what they say and post back here.

 

[750H.P.V6]

Phil,

I ended up not using a Bee Hive spring. I just couldn't get what I needed. I run a larger cam than Chuck with a 1.65 ratio rocker so I couldn't get the installed height to work with the valve lift etc.

I would suggest that you go to the machine shop and see what the spring pressures will be. I take it that this is for a flat tappet cam correct? If so you probably don't need a Bee Hive spring anyway.

Neal

 

[MAX PSI]

Chuck , Sounds like they will work at 1.710". I'm also using CC 218/212 roller, but my lift is only .544/.536 with 1.65 rockers. I guess I better get the +.050" locks and check the spring pressures.

 

[MAX PSI]

Neal, This is CC hardened cast roller. It was a complete kit (cam lifters springs ect..) . I just ran into this install height broblem. I don't like just throwing things together without checking them. Good thing too!! Also went to the Manley valves, so that might have added to the problem.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

My bad

Originally posted by MAX PSI
Chuck , Sounds like they will work at 1.710". I'm also using CC 218/212 roller, but my lift is only .544/.536 with 1.65 rockers. I guess I better get the +.050" locks and check the spring pressures.

My cam is also used w/ the 1.65 TD's, and the lift is not .550, but is the same as yours.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

WHY??

Originally posted by ILBCNU6
Bee Hive springs? Why? A Chevy part and for a high RPM engine and mega lift cam. (CC's selling hype part!) Sorry but not needed in a Buick Engine. I would send them back and run a standard spring w/o all the fitment problems. I run a billet roller cam and seat pressure is 145# at 1.700" and don't know the open pressure but lots of clearance before coil bind. Runs easy to 6K! Just another opinion and your choice. Gene PS. I'm not a CC fan at all!

Because they make a SIGNIFICANT reduction in valvetrain wt.
When the math is done, it's about the same as using the "standard" dual springs and titanium valves. At a price MUCH less than titanium valves....
A hyd lifter likes the lower wt. [Think of it as "Slimfast" for your valvetrain ]
BTW, I did use a "standard" spring.. the Crane "roller springs" that Tom puts on his heads. They lasted about 20 runs, and lost over 35# on the seat, and 100# open...

PS: I'm not a Packers fan either!!!

 

[Silver 6]

Hey now, wait a minute. Just because you got this spring problem going don't be stepping on the PACK!

 

[MAX PSI]

We checked the springs this morning.
@ 1.710" 160-165lbs
@1.166" 340-348lbs (.544" lift)
coil bind @ 1.035"
I ordered the +.050" locks this morning.
Thanks eveyone for the help.

 

[Scott231]

Originally posted by MAX PSI
We checked the springs this morning.
@ 1.710" 160-165lbs
@1.166" 340-348lbs (.544" lift)
coil bind @ 1.035"
I ordered the +.050" locks this morning.
Thanks eveyone for the help.

I take it that should be:
@1.660" 340-348lbs

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Originally posted by Scott231
I take it that should be:
@1.660" 340-348lbs

Scott, Do the math!! And you are an accountant????

David, the "Pack" steps on themselves!!! I don't have a problem w/ the springs.. others do!!

Gene: I have a bit of an "insider track" at CC, so I'm fortunate enuf to get help when I need it.
We're gonna see how these bad boys work on a solid flat cam in my HEMI. That's coming up next. We may even take the engine to CC for some dyno tests of the new hyd roller they are coming with..

 

[750H.P.V6]

Run it!!

Phil,

Those spring pressures sound pretty good to me for the application with the 1.710" installed height. I'd tell you to go with it.

Good Luck
Neal

 

[Russ Merritt]

Just got mine back today. The trick was to mill the seat cups .030, and they used Crower 86107x1-16 +.050 locks. Came out to be 156# closed @ 1.720 and 347# open @ 1.176. This is on 8 bolt Champ GN1s going on the street motor.