Interesting turbo/dyno test tonight= bigger isnt always better

[norbs]

Put the 110 in and bump the timing for sure, it will rock and roll.. The bigger tires will help it MPH also..

 

[tonysmach]

Since you have a power logger, why not record fuel pressure at the same time? The sensor is a bit expensive, but well worth it to me anyway. You will use input #4 and configure it as a 100 psi sensor B. You might get a discount If you say norbs sent you, or maybe he will jack up the price, LOL Kelly is great to deal with.

I am impressed with your numbers so far te44 is a great little turbo for the street.

Pressure Sensors - Transducers


WB-762 is the sensor you need.

I replaced my PT70 with this TE44 and the car is a blast to drive on the street. With my PT70 my rwhp was 427 and 457 RWT. I did not have the heads, cam or converter for that big turbo. This thread is right on with my current situation...bigger is not always better.

I have an Autometer electric 2 1/8 fuel pressure gauge that I have not installed yet. Will that hook up to the PL and log the fuel pressure?

 

[bison]

I will check fuel delivery. I didn't want to buy a camshaft anyways. Current tires are 255/60/15. I have been looking for MT 275/60/15. Funny you say add higher octane because I just found out Sunoco station down the road sells 110. Current timing is about 21.5* so certainly room to cautiously move it up. I had plans to go to dragstrip 3 times this year and each time something came up so I had to cancel, but I know I need to get there. Thanks for the comments Bison.

Taller tire will help you a lot

 

[norbs]

You will have to ask Bob on the full throttle forum if he calibrate that gauge to work on the PL.

 

[tonysmach]

Well looks like you need to add a bunch more fuel, and based on the WB data, I would say its misfiring under high boost. I would say the injectors are big enough but your fuel pump is not keeping up maybe. BLMS are at 170 maxed out the injectors are close to 87-90%. Or turn up the fuel pressure 5 psi. WHen you start seeing the a/f ratio bounce every bounce is a misfire. I have learned from experience. Coming up on boost it went lean and knocked, not a good thing. You may want to richen overall system fuel on the chip, but the duty cycle seems high its a fuel problem somewhere.

I remembered today that a couple of weeks ago I disconnected my Red's Volt Booster because it was making my Razor's Alky go "crazy". The car ran much better but could this have had a negative effect on my fuel pressure? I looked at previous logs when the VB was connected and my BLMs were fine at 128 at high boost. Does this make sense?
Today I raised my fuel pressure to 48 from 43 and logged a run down the highway and my BLMs were 159 down from 170 at the top end. Still far from 128. How much can I raise the FP?

 

[GNVYUS 1]

To get back to the topic of this thread and the bigger turbos on stockish parts.

I have inflated VPE numbers for my intake porting they did. Bison is definitely correct in that it will eventually flow more per runner than the head but intake volume is important, especially for freer flowing heads and at higher rpms. Here are their numbers

Stock Intake Runner #1 = 194 (has egr tower)
Ported Stock Intake Runner #1 = 282 (no egr tower)

Now VPE is known for juicing the numbers, by as much as 15%. But that's a 45% increase regardless if the flow bench is high.

A set of max ported irons and intake would be interesting to see for this threads car with the same turbos, psi and timing since we have a baseline to go off of.

 

[Blazer406]

I remembered today that a couple of weeks ago I disconnected my Red's Volt Booster because it was making my Razor's Alky go "crazy". The car ran much better but could this have had a negative effect on my fuel pressure? I looked at previous logs when the VB was connected and my BLMs were fine at 128 at high boost. Does this make sense?
Today I raised my fuel pressure to 48 from 43 and logged a run down the highway and my BLMs were 159 down from 170 at the top end. Still far from 128. How much can I raise the FP?

The VB can definately have an effect on a fuel pumps output. I would imagine you could have lost a significant amount of volume/pressure by running the pump at a lower voltage. They do make fuel pump controllers that only kick the voltage up on the fuel pump when you need it.... instead of the entire car...

I think you might be on to something.

With that said.... IMHO.... you have fuel delivery issues if it can't keep up on stock voltages......and should probably be addressed anyway..... in lieu of running the volt booster to get "enough" flow out of the fuel pump.

 

[JP112_89]

I have been following this thread since it opened. Great job Otto and Bison !!!
Thanks for all your hard work guys.

Joe

 

[norbs]

I remembered today that a couple of weeks ago I disconnected my Red's Volt Booster because it was making my Razor's Alky go "crazy". The car ran much better but could this have had a negative effect on my fuel pressure? I looked at previous logs when the VB was connected and my BLMs were fine at 128 at high boost. Does this make sense?
Today I raised my fuel pressure to 48 from 43 and logged a run down the highway and my BLMs were 159 down from 170 at the top end. Still far from 128. How much can I raise the FP?

I don;t think you can go anymore than 50 psi to be safe, but I still think its a fuel flow problem. Do you have a hot wire kit? If your interested I have a kenne bell boost a pump I can sell you . it will put 17 volts to your fuel pump under boost...and it works well, I just can;t use it on my fuelab pump now, but before it was night and day without it on my old pump.

 

[Jerryl]

Ill be testing a 6152 soon.......

Bison,
Did you ever get a chance to test this turbo?

Thanks for sharing the knowledge and test results!

 

[bison]

Bison,
Did you ever get a chance to test this turbo?

Thanks for sharing the knowledge and test results!

Not yet. i just got back from a 10 day vacation. Ill be contacting the members who offered their turbos and test them when i get a chance. Id expect similar to a little better performance compared the PT 53 at the same boost levels. Ill be retesting the PT53 also since i couldnt get a good seal with the wastegate flapper.

 

[Rodney87GN]

Bison,
Sorry if I missed it earlier, but what fuel pump are you using on the test car? Stock fuel lines I assume?

 

[bison]

Bison,
Sorry if I missed it earlier, but what fuel pump are you using on the test car? Stock fuel lines I assume?

Double XP/stock lines. It doenst need both pumps on the dyno up to the 501whp max its been to. I tried with the 2nd pump off and no increse in duty cycle anywhere. This may not be true when factoring in g-force. Ive been up to about 670whp on a single 340@14v, 10.8:1 a/f with 30 gph worth of alky flowing at the same time on the dyno. At 680whp the duty cycle jumped abruptly. You can not use dyno hp to evaluate the effectiveness of a fuel system since there will always need to be more pump to deal with the g force when racing, especially if large lines are used or the suction side of the pump is not behind/parallel with the cell/tank. Ive seen cars with suctions that required the pump to suction toward the front of the car . That would not matter on a dyno but will cavitate a pump really fast with a hard launch.

 

[Quiky One]

Double XP/stock lines. It doenst need both pumps on the dyno up to the 501whp max its been to. I tried with the 2nd pump off and no increse in duty cycle anywhere. This may not be true when factoring in g-force. Ive been up to about 670whp on a single 340@14v, 10.8:1 a/f with 30 gph worth of alky flowing at the same time on the dyno. At 680whp the duty cycle jumped abruptly. You can not use dyno hp to evaluate the effectiveness of a fuel system since there will always need to be more pump to deal with the g force when racing, especially if large lines are used or the suction side of the pump is not behind/parallel with the cell/tank. Ive seen cars with suctions that required the pump to suction toward the front of the car . That would not matter on a dyno but will cavitate a pump really fast with a hard launch.

Bison, how much boost do you think you will get to with the 6152e? I am curious about the difference in power between 20, 25, and then 28+. I hope you get the chance to run it at a few different boost levels. :biggrin:

I know I personally run a 6152e, so it would be really intriguing to me, but I also read people's sigs and quite a few run 6152's. Common turbo.

When are you going to switch to Julios kit? Do you think his kit will make the car any faster/more power or is the SMC achieving like you want it to?

Thanks! Jason

 

[bad V6]

I also am very interested in your results with the 6152, as I currently am running one also. At BG, with the boost set at 21# and WB at 10.2, I ran a best of 11.81 at 124.35 MPH through the exhaust. Next time out, I hope to get the boost in the 25-26# range and see what it is capable of, before stepping up to a bigger turbo.

Bison, do you have an idea as to how fast the 6152 may run?

 

[Otto J]

I have a car here with ported iron,212 roller that has gone 10.30s with a 6776 we ca test some turbos on.

I will be putting a champion ported head 212 roller car together tomorrow that was dynoed with a TA 49 and its getting a TA 6265 Billet Wheel BB turbo now and redynoed.
So we can see the difference on a more modded car.
The test wont be back to back though but same car.

 

[jasjamz]

I have a car here with ported iron,212 roller that has gone 10.30s with a 6776 we ca test some turbos on.

I will be putting a champion ported head 212 roller car together tomorrow that was dynoed with a TA 49 and its getting a TA 6265 Billet Wheel BB turbo now and redynoed.
So we can see the difference on a more modded car.
The test wont be back to back though but same car.

Keep it coming, this thread is a big help!

 

[Otto J]

Keep it coming, this thread is a big help!

I need to do a set of head gaskets to it first next week first.

 

[Mr.Spool]

bison,what duty cycle are you seeing and which fuel at 670whp,30 gph of alky,and on what size injector?

 

[Rodney87GN]

Double XP/stock lines. It doenst need both pumps on the dyno up to the 501whp max its been to. I tried with the 2nd pump off and no increse in duty cycle anywhere. This may not be true when factoring in g-force. Ive been up to about 670whp on a single 340@14v, 10.8:1 a/f with 30 gph worth of alky flowing at the same time on the dyno. At 680whp the duty cycle jumped abruptly. You can not use dyno hp to evaluate the effectiveness of a fuel system since there will always need to be more pump to deal with the g force when racing, especially if large lines are used or the suction side of the pump is not behind/parallel with the cell/tank. Ive seen cars with suctions that required the pump to suction toward the front of the car . That would not matter on a dyno but will cavitate a pump really fast with a hard launch.

I agree with you, and it kinda confirms my suspicions about my single 340's output on the dyno vs real world driving. Driving on the road, if I do a 2nd or 3rd gear punch, when I hit WOT and 26-28 psi I can hear actual pinging even though I do not register KR on the scanmaster....so I have to let out of the throttle right away. It never used to that and the pump is only over a year old.

But at the dyno, at WOT and 28 psi I didn't hear any audible pinging or get any KR. Fuel pressure does rise 1 to 1 in both instances but I did notice on the dyno fuel psi wasn't as stable and did drop to 68 psi (I need 71 psi). I do have Razors single nozzle alky, and my injector duty cycle was about 80% IIRC. The rest of the motor has ported irons, 210-215 roller cam, 60lb injectors, and a TE-45a run at 28 psi. I'm gonna try to run a Bosch 044 intank...or probably go with a double pumper (overkill maybe?)