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Is it safe to use STP w/zddp and Why is 10W40 not used very much in TB's?

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Tim Cucci

Member
Joined
May 24, 2001
Messages
346
I am speaking of a Brand New Roller Motor w/ Rev. X camshaft and valve train. After reading many post I think the general consensus is ZDDP is not needed in a roller motor but as another individual has posted-- The cam is not the only thing that utilizes the additive such as all other moving parts.
I would like to try a thicker oil to try to quiet the roller a touch. I thought about using a 10W40 Valvoline and maybe a little STP which has the ZDDP additives. Is this not a good combo? Oil pressure is 20 at idle with fast response.
Thanks
Tim
 
I am speaking of a Brand New Roller Motor w/ Rev. X camshaft and valve train. After reading many post I think the general consensus is ZDDP is not needed in a roller motor but as another individual has posted-- The cam is not the only thing that utilizes the additive such as all other moving parts.
I would like to try a thicker oil to try to quiet the roller a touch. I thought about using a 10W40 Valvoline and maybe a little STP which has the ZDDP additives. Is this not a good combo? Oil pressure is 20 at idle with fast response. Thanks Tim

Since I have not seen a "general consensus" that an additive is NOT needed is because of a roller lifter cam instead of a flat tappet, I would question the source?

Since the roller cam uses a higher spring pressure and relatively small rollers and bearings, these areas have a very high wear potential. We have replaced many roller lifters, and even a few cams due to wear.

The stage II block and the TA alum block can use a bigger [stronger] roller lifter due to the different oil passages, and they hold up better than the shielded foot lifter needed in the 109 block.

Since a performance engine sees lots more load and heat than normal, cylinder wall oiling is also very crucial. Even lots of street engines that have "heavy" use develop cylinder wear like happens in race applications.

It is hard for me to understand why someone would not spend $10 or so for an oil additive to protect an engine costing thousands of dollars?:confused:

My engine and my customers have no choice, EOS or ZDDP every oil change even if only 10 or so runs, or a 1000 miles between changes.:)

Also, we use 20/50W Valvoline Racing oil all year here, except straight 50W in the race cars during the warmer months. We are more concerned about reliability than 3 or 4 more horsepower.
 
Nick
I agree with you that our whole engine utilizes the zddp treatment. I currently am using an zddp additive. My point was exactly what you stated. The $10 cost is not a factor. I have read several post where people do not use zddp and maybe "General Consensus" was going to far since I did not do an official poll. I was generally speaking.

Do you also add the ZDDP with the VR1 20W50?

Is 10W40 not a desired oil and why?

Does anyone use STP with ZDDP additives?
Just asking thats all.

Thanks
Tim
 
Nick
I agree with you that our whole engine utilizes the zddp treatment. I currently am using an zddp additive. My point was exactly what you stated. The $10 cost is not a factor. I have read several post where people do not use zddp and maybe "General Consensus" was going to far since I did not do an official poll. I was generally speaking.

Do you also add the ZDDP with the VR1 20W50?

Is 10W40 not a desired oil and why?

Does anyone use STP with ZDDP additives?
Just asking thats all.

Thanks
Tim
rotella 15/45 and stp oil treatment never lost a lobe and do it every oil change
 
Before coming to a conclusion regarding the use of STP or any oil additives in general, may I suggest doing a search for GM EOS, ZDDP, ZDDP Plus, as there is a wealth of information on various threads on this very same subject. I do not really like STP as a product, but I do believe that ZDDP Plus / GM EOS, or any other well respected engine oil additive is a good preventative maintenance idea. Searching for "Richard Clark's" name will also bring up a lot of great info. HTH
 
what is so special about the turbocharged Buick motor that people think we need to use a different oil than every other engine family in the world?
if zddp was needed for "other parts" of the engine, then every late model engine being built today would be a rolling time bomb.
the zddp is needed for the interface between the flat tappet lifter and camshaft lobe- the loads there are much, much higher than anywhere else in the engine- and maybe even the rest of the car.
it probably can't hurt to have the stuff in there, but if you get rid of the flat tappets, then it isn't needed.
 
what is so special about the turbocharged Buick motor that people think we need to use a different oil than every other engine family in the world?
if zddp was needed for "other parts" of the engine, then every late model engine being built today would be a rolling time bomb.
the zddp is needed for the interface between the flat tappet lifter and camshaft lobe- the loads there are much, much higher than anywhere else in the engine- and maybe even the rest of the car.
it probably can't hurt to have the stuff in there, but if you get rid of the flat tappets, then it isn't needed.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but since that you have not been around Buicks, especially turbo Buicks, for very long apparently, you have not experienced the results, good and bad, of a high performance V-6.

To say an oil additive is not needed except in a flat tappet engine is a broad statement, and does not take in account lots of other factors.

Some of these are how is the car used, the basic V-6 design and metalurgy is from the 1960's, oil composition and additives have changed drastically in the past few years.

A street driver GN has much different "needs" than a 900+ HP race motor. If the additive does such a good job of preserving the flat tappet cam which is a higher loaded "interface" than anything else in the engine, then why would you NOT want to protect ALL the other friction surfaces?:confused:

Over the many years, even before "boards", most cam failures had one thing in common - synthetic oil. So if it is a problem there, would it also be less effective else where in the engine?

Many owners want to stick with their type of oil. We do also because of the good results we have found over the years in our applications.

Tim, not problem with 10-40W oil, we just do not have it available in Valvoline Racing which we use. I do use it in street cars in other brands.
 
what is so special about the turbocharged Buick motor that people think we need to use a different oil than every other engine family in the world?
if zddp was needed for "other parts" of the engine, then every late model engine being built today would be a rolling time bomb.
the zddp is needed for the interface between the flat tappet lifter and camshaft lobe- the loads there are much, much higher than anywhere else in the engine- and maybe even the rest of the car.
it probably can't hurt to have the stuff in there, but if you get rid of the flat tappets, then it isn't needed.

in a few days i'm gonna post some info that i have accumulated recently----i'm in the process of getting a few more tests and when i have them it will surprise a lot of folks-------and i really want to see if someone from GM comments on it--------on a whim i recently went to a local dealership and asked one of the techs that i knew well to get me a sample of "new first oil change" (ie factory fill) from a new zo6 corvette--------took a while for one to come in but i got it------400 miles------can i say surprise???-------not really since i had a suspicion in the first place--------over 3000 ppm zinc and phosphorous-----------supposed to be Mobil 1--------might be but its not the Mobil one that you buy off the shelf with less than 800 PPM----------over the last several months i have done several tests like this and all seem to have similar numbers-----------mull these facts over for a while and we can discuss what it might mean...................RC
 
Careful which diesel oil you use. Some older CI-4 formulations and even CJ-4 have a high level of detergents (calcium and magnesium) which can interfere with the anti-wear additives (zinc and phosphorous). There is an SAE paper on this. Delvac 1 5w40, Delvac 1300 15W40 , and Delo 400 LE 15W40 currently have a level of detergent that is compatible with gasoline engines and have a higher level of anti-wear. The Rotella T 15W40 (CJ-4) and Rotella Synthetc 5W40 (CI-4) have elevated levels of calcium, 2500 and 3600 ppm respectively.
 
I changed the oil and used VR1 20w50. Engine (roller) is much quieter, sounds like a real small sewing machine now and the pressure almost doubled. Sure is thick oil though.Also installed the PF52 (larger) filter.
Thanks
Tim
 
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