Lets Hear It Girdle Or Caps?

[liv4gnz]

age old question but i never seen a thread on it yet and would personaly like to know and i bet there are hundreds out there who would love to see the results as well

i personaly went with the rjc girdle honestly because it was cheaper lol

i got a used girdle and baught all the hardware arp studs and all separate for around 250 dollars

now main caps are about 400-450 for all four.

what are the flaws in either design and i know both are proven but why did you go the route you went based on what facts and experiences?

 

[bison]

This topic has been beat to death. Either are fine for a high 9 sec build. Only the center caps are needed imo. Id rather have a forged crank and 2 center caps than a girdle and stock crank for high hp. The flaws in them are inherent in any application they could be used. They can be installed and machined improperly causing head aches. If you plan on running faster than high 9's you should be shopping for a used stage 2 block. The BS and expense involved in building an 800+hp engine would make you wonder why anyone would want to start with a $200-300 POS block that was never meant to be used over 400hp unless they were a heads up racer required to run it like in TSM.

 

[Crazyx4]

steel crank and caps! easier for the engine builder.

 

[gnxtc2]

What are your plans and goals? But what Bison said is true.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[KevinB]

You already have the girdle. I'd roll with that and a forged crank with the stock caps.

 

[87Gnastey]

I am about mid way through my motor project and came across that same question. The feedback I got from my machinist and the guys at RJC was that the reason for stock caps failing is because of the poor webbing in the block; when the caps are under stress, they start to flex/twist/separate. The girdle obviously takes care of this problem by supporting the caps and keeping them planted. Although, I have never seen any pics of grenaded motors due to the caps failing so I wouldn't know for sure, I went with the RJC girdle and stock caps.

 

[BEATAV8]

I've never run a girdle yet, but I have two blocks with program steel caps. One was machined with the caps being ground by ANS back in the day (stock crank) and the other was machined by a fella down on the south side of chi-town (steel crank) Both blocks show some fretting due to the caps walking around a bit. I'm not really concerned about much, just know that it's there. I was wondering if a girdle prevents this fretting since it seems the caps would be more stable and wouldn't have the opportunity to walk around nearly as much.

*eagerly awaiting the champion iron block*:smile:

 

[boostingbuick]

I have run three engines with girdles, 2 4.1 production and 1 109 block. Stock caps in all 3 engines with no failures. I just use what I know. Has not let me down yet.

 

[BEATAV8]

I have run three engines with girdles, 2 4.1 production and 1 109 block. Stock caps in all 3 engines with no failures. I just use what I know. Has not let me down yet.

Have you ever noticed any fretting between the caps and the block?

 

[liv4gnz]

it seems like a girdle prevents the caps from flexing and getting damaged

while the caps them selves take the abuse in but are just strong enough to overcome the flex but still show wear from it

i always like to go to the preventative route weather its money or better parts so im happy about the girdle so far

 

[Ed Valvo]

I've also seen cap walk/fretting with caps only. This was with stock and steel crank engines. I did get to see one of these engines, with the stock crank, after a season of runs with the addition of an RJC girdle. I did not see fretting but what we really noticed was less bearing wear. Without the girdle, the bearings looked abused after a season of racing. With the girdle they looked good.

 

[turboxan]

I get some oil leaks with a girdle:frown:

 

[liv4gnz]

do you use any kind of spray like copper spray or something between the girdle and block so seal it

 

[bison]

do you use any kind of spray like copper spray or something between the girdle and block so seal it

My preference is grey RTV. Never had a leak with it and im sure i go around all the bolt holes.

 

[liv4gnz]

is it going to still be perfectly flat like even on the sides?? its not gonna interfere with the tolorences?

 

[jasjamz]

is it going to still be perfectly flat like even on the sides?? its not gonna interfere with the tolorences?

Nope, It will work fine.

 

[KevinB]

is it going to still be perfectly flat like even on the sides?? its not gonna interfere with the tolorences?

We needed to mill the pain rails on my current block. One side was higher than the other. Might want to check that too.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Have you ever noticed any fretting between the caps and the block?

I have seen fretting with a girdle using both stock caps and steel caps. However, in both cases a stock crank was used.

 

[KL Mallender]

My vote would be for girdle, for stability of block centerlines, if the block "twists" out of center cap failure is imminent. Holding the engine with torque strap on front of engine compounds problem.(use mid-plate to control engine rotation, let engine weight rest on motor mounts). As for sealing oil leaks I've used both grey and clear silicone (GE brand only) if sealed properly it will remain dryer than the stock pan gasket ever allowed. Good luck.

Kevin.

 

[gnxtc2]

Steel caps or girdle, when the stock crank starts to flex the deflection is absorbed by the caps/block. You have to keep the flexing to a mininum, ie: steel crank otherwise everything else is a band aid.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com