Lock Up Or Not

[turbo john FL]

GUYS NEED SOME HELP HERE SOME OF YOU JUST HELPED WITH CAM SUGGESTIONS THAT WAS GREATLY APPRECIATED . NOW FOR A DAILY DRIVER IN FL.RUNNING A/C .PLAN IS TO BUILD A STREET MONSTER SO FAR TE44, DELPHI 50S ,,WALBRO 340,MEASE 3" DOWNPIPE WITH DUMP,DOING HEADS AND CHANGING CAM TO A 206 OR 212.I SEEM TO GET DIFFERING OPINIONS ON RUNNING A LOCK UP OR NOT.SOME PEOPLE SAY I WILL NOT MISS THE LOCK UP TO JUST RUN A GOOD TRANNY COOLER OTHER SIDE BEEN TOLD I WILL LOOSE H.P . WITHOUT L/U HELP, YOUR EXPERIENCE WOULD BE GREATLY ACCEPTED. THANKS JOHN

 

[Tow Man]

I think it's more a matter of prefference. This topic has been rehashed many times. If you do a search I'm sure you'll find at least a dozen threads regarding this.

There definitely appears to be a MPH advantage in the 1/4 locking the converter. You will also have slightly better fuel economy due to a lower cruise RPM.

I personally preffer the non lockups. I hate the constant lock and unlock and chugging of a lockup converter. In my opinion, drivabillity is so much better with a NL. I also couldn't care less about saving a few pennies in gas. I'm more concerned with FPG (fun per gallon) than MPG The NL converters will also free up some HP due to lighter rotating mass and offer better throttle response as a result! I really can't be bothered with another toggle switch to manually lock and unlock the converter.

There are quite a few good units to choose from either way you go. There are pro's and con's to both, the choice is yours.

Have fun!

 

[BoostedBug]

Here is the "other guy" opinion.

I love the lock up. The non-lock up converters remind me of the old days when I had my bigblock and that 4200 converter. Always whining around town. Motor is always turned up. i like the driveability of the lock up style and when your in my car yo realy cannot tell there is a stall converter in it until I come up on the brake.

I have more Turbo than you and I love my SB 3000 converter. It will brake stall 3200 and drives like a stocker...Until you lean on it. I went from a Te-44 to a TE 63-1 and there is no noticeable diffrence in spool up.

 

[V6POWER]

If you get a Translator with Extender chip you can program at what mile per hour you want WOT lock-up. You can also turn it off.

 

[turbo john FL]

???????????

IT SEEMS I AM ASKING TO OPEN UP AN ONGOING BAG OF WORMS BUT I AM NEW HERE AND THIS IS MY FIRST G/N .I WENT BACK AND CHECKED OLD THREADS AND THIS SEEMS TO BE A BIG CONTRAVERSY,SO I MUST SAY I HAVE NO IDEA WICH WAY TO GO .SO IF ANYONE WANTS TO FILL ME IN ON WHAT HAS WORKED BEST FOR THEM FOR A CAR THAT WILL SEE A FAIR AMOUNT OF ROAD USAGE I WILL BE THANKFUL. IM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CONFUSED THANKS GUYS JOHN

 

[Tow Man]

Originally posted by BoostedBug
Here is the "other guy" opinion.

I love the lock up. The non-lock up converters remind me of the old days when I had my bigblock and that 4200 converter. Always whining around town. Motor is always turned up. i like the driveability of the lock up style and when your in my car yo realy cannot tell there is a stall converter in it until I come up on the brake.

I have more Turbo than you and I love my SB 3000 converter. It will brake stall 3200 and drives like a stocker...Until you lean on it. I went from a Te-44 to a TE 63-1 and there is no noticeable diffrence in spool up.

Like I said, a matter of preference

BTW. The stall speed and light throttle efficiency of a converter has nothing to do with lock-up or non lock-up. You can end up with a very loose lock-up just as easilly as a non lock-up. My Art Carr 3000 was just as tight in "normal" driving as the stock converter. The only noticable difference was when on the brake, and of course no annoying lock at cruise.

Ever wonder why some converters are $300.00 and some as high as $900.00 and higher? Efficiency! You get what you pay for.

I have a 5,000 stall Turbo Action in my Demon and still have relatively decent street manners at light throttle! If you buy B&M you will "B"e "M"isserable.

My advise here is not wether to buy a lock-up or non lock-up. My advise is to buy a high quality unit of either choice. You can't go wrong with any of the Real Art Carr, Precision, or PTS converters. There are others, but these are the favorites!

 

[matt87]

i have both so i can comment on how i like them. the lock-up is nice on long drives but thats about it, as mentioned i dont like the constant locking/unlocking driving around. also my chip has forced lock up so i dont worry about doing it myself. my non l/u drives fine inly see about 300 rpm more driving around. it doesnt feel like its slipping at all. i think for 11 sec an slower cars a single disc lock up is best for all around use. a real fast car can use a non lockup or a very exspensive multi-disc l/u.

 

[BoostedBug]

Originally posted by matt87
i have both so i can comment on how i like them. the lock-up is nice on long drives but thats about it, as mentioned i dont like the constant locking/unlocking driving around. also my chip has forced lock up so i dont worry about doing it myself. my non l/u drives fine inly see about 300 rpm more driving around. it doesnt feel like its slipping at all. i think for 11 sec an slower cars a single disc lock up is best for all around use. a real fast car can use a non lockup or a very exspensive multi-disc l/u.

If you want a race car then go non lock..I hve never had a problem with the lock up going in and out..i guess if you drive 45 everywhere you might have that problem but I don't.

 

[UNGN]

If this is your first TR and you are only using a TE44 turbo, keep the stock D5 and spend the money on something that will make you faster (like heads). KEEP THE D5 AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

The TE44/TA49 + the stock D5 is a great combination for the street or strip. A big converter with a TE44 on the street = wheelspin. A non lockup converter with a TE44 at the track means a lockup car will go flying by you at the traps, 5 mph faster.

 

[John Wilde]

My almost stock car came with an art car 16930 non lock up.
It went 12.5 @ 104.7. You could say it killed my mph.
Later with the Fast, Aluminum Heads and pt-70 it worked very well.

 

[idaho gn]

john i dont know whats wrong with your car but that converter has run 130 mph .........................grin

 

[John Wilde]

The problem is the car was junk.
I am glad you are having fun with the motor.
Please run a low 10 for me this year or sneek into
the 9s.

later dude!!!

 

[turbo john FL]

now this comes to mind also with the above set up that i am going to run if the heads are done the 50s cam etc. to tie into this whole t/c contreversy,am i better to go up to a bigger turbo like a te-60 or so? will this also make a difference as far as h.p. and t/c selection for a sreet driver?? i do thank you guys for the help here just looking for the best sreet setup without putting money into the car to turn around and change them again . would definetley like to just do it once so i figure your experience is the best advice i can ask for thanks again john

 

[turbo john FL]

forgot wether it mattersour not also hooker headers and bgc 23 row stock loc.coming if any of this matters our not with the set up

 

[Grumpy]

I would NOT use hooker headers...another can of worms ....as far as the lock up...I like the lock up on faily stock cars..works awesome BUT mine are only mid 11 cars that are driven every day

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by turbo john FL
forgot wether it mattersour not also hooker headers and bgc 23 row stock loc.coming if any of this matters our not with the set up

Hooker headers and non-lockups have a bad rap on this BB, probably because they deserve it. At your point, stay away from both.

How fast realistically do you want to go? Set a goal and build your car to achieve that goal. Don't buy a lot of "10 second parts" thinking they will make you run "10 second 1/4 miles". It sadly does not work that way.

A realistic goal is "11.5 second 1/4's in race trim and drive it everyday (having a backup car just incase)"

 

[salvageV6]

And make sure your backup car is a Turbo Regal.

Out of my 3 lockups, I have a Vigilante, Protorque, and had the D5's, I prefer the D5 for drivability.

I agree with UNGN keep the D5 as long as you can and with the 44 you shouldn't need another converter.

 

[turbo john FL]

MY THINKING IS ALONG THE IDEA OF A MID TO LOW 11 CAR AT LEAST AS FAR AS MY KNOWLEDGE GOES THAT SEEMED LIKE A REALISTIC GOAL FOR A DAILY DRIVER I SEE UNGN YOU AND ANOTHER REPLY SAID NOT A GOOD IDEA ON HOOKER HEADERS??? REALLY BAD THING?????????FOR MID 11S IS THERE NO ADVANTAGE TO GO TO A 9 INCH T/C???????????

 

[UNGN]

Hooker headers are 1987 technology. Back then it was assumed you needed headers to run 11's. Now we know that people have run mid 10's on stock headers. We also know that hookers can cause big time lag and the bang for the buck in the 11 second zone is zilch. If your stockers are cracked, have them TIG welded.

If you want to run mid to low 11's in race trim and have a daily driver, your plan for a TE44 with ported heads will work. Lots of people have gone mid 11's on stock unported heads/TE44 at around 22-25 psi of boost. Ported heads will run that at a lot less boost.

There is really no real advantage to a loose converter with a TE44 especially in a daily driver. The turbo will spool on the brake with the stock converter. The idea of a converter is to get the turbo to spool (not to get to the 4K tq peak like on an LS1). As soon as the turbo spools, you are at max torque, which is way more than any street tire can handle, so any additional torque multiplication will be lost in wheel spin. Since stock block turbo motors are RPM limited (Crank flex, small cam, little valves, soft valve springs, smallish turbo) a loose converter can hurt on the bigend, too.

 

[Tow Man]

Originally posted by UNGN
If this is your first TR and you are only using a TE44 turbo, keep the stock D5 and spend the money on something that will make you faster (like heads). KEEP THE D5 AS LONG AS POSSIBLE

Ahh, but the 9" NL will make you faster! I saw a 4 tenth in the 1/4 improvement over the stock converter by just going to an Art Carr 9" and shift kit. Bone stock car with open dump, 26X8.5" slicks, performance chip, and boost at 22psi. Car was all stock except for above. My ET went from 13.0 to 12.60 at 108MPH. I believe you will see 3-4 tenths over a stock converter at any performance level!

Yes, you will see a higher MPH with a lock-up. You will also see 3-4 tenths with a higher stall lock-up as well. BUT I just don't buy the theory that there is nothing to be gained by scrapping that D5. 4 tenths for $600.00 seems like a good buy to me! If you plan on frequent visits to the drag strip, it won't be long before that D5 baloons and takes your trans with it like mine did last season in my new GN

BTW, ET wins races! MPH is icing on the cake!