Longevity of Total Seal gapless rings for the street?

[Walt03]

How many street miles can I expect to get off total seal rings ( 2nd ring gapless) before re-ringing? I've heard only about 10,000 miles and that these rings are more for racing than street use.

I have a set for my .040 109 but after reading the achives I don't know whether to use them or go with a plain cast iron ring set from Hastings. I'm confused to say the least.

Can you give me your insights?
Thanks

 

[Alky V6]

I installed a set of gapless top rings from Total Seal (1/16 width) in Tom Wilson's TA blocked street application and the last time it was in the shop leakdown was 1 to 2 percent still! I have yet to do a leakdown on a set of gapless tops that do not measure 1 to 2 percent.

My race car is running the metric size of gapless tops. A thinner ring. Much less parasitic drag. The engine is getting to the age of needing a pm and I recently did a leakdown to check things out. 1 to 2 percent leakdown, with less that 1 percent in a few cylinders! Unbelievable! I am sold.

If anything, I would switch to the gapless top ring set. They're the latest technology in gapless from Total Seal. Gapless 2nd sets are old school. I used a set on one of my past engines and they did well. They do have a little more leakdown than the gapless tops.

 

[Lee Thompson]

My experience

I thought that they wore a little to soon to suit me. (the gapless ring). I do drive my car more than most. I am NOT a big fan of them for street use. They do seal up great and the top total seal is best. I am currently using Speed Pro file to fit moly plasma rings with .018 top and .022 bottom and .016 oil ring. This is the best setup I have used to date. BTW, this is on a 4.020 bore. Best of luck.

 

[Walt03]

Donnie,
Instead of buying a set of top gaplessrings , can I put the original second gapless set of rings on the first ring land and the cast ring on the second ring land? This is a 1/16,1/16,5/64 ring set.

 

[turbofabricator]

The general consensous of top engine builders (world wide) is to toss the 2nd gapless rings. They do show good leak-down results, BUT in a running engine they cause the top ring to lift. NHRA Pro-Stock guys run standard ring packs. I've seen the gapless top rings FAIL and kill a set of JE pistons in short order. (supercharged application) I really don't think that you will gain anything with a gapless ring except with a leak down tester. I don't race a leak down gauge. (or a engine dyno, or a flow bench either. ) Gapless technology, in different designs, have been tried since the 30's. Does it really improve the power in a running engine, though? A good leak down test makes most people feel good. Even with low leak down numbers a engine can have the top ring wasted! Does F1 run gapless? Does ANY OEM use gapless? Does Top Fuel run gapless? Does NHRA Pro-Stock run gapless? Answer........NO. I do really like Total Seal conventional rings, though. I have seen lots of engines run good with them, too, though. If I had an engine on a engine stand with gapless rings in it, I would tear it apart and remove them. Not worth the potential negatives, IMO.

 

[turbofabricator]

Donnie,
Instead of buying a set of top gaplessrings , can I put the original second gapless set of rings on the first ring land and the cast ring on the second ring land? This is a 1/16,1/16,5/64 ring set.

Absolutely NOT! This is a combination of disasterous porportions! Top rings are machined differently than second rings, and visa-versa. Use a conventional ring in the 2nd ring position and a moly ring in the top. You will not be dissappointed. (providing the block was machined correctly.)

 

[TurboTR]

I'm with Don- loved having a gapless 2nd ring setup in my S1 3.8 street mill. The main reason being, there was ~ no blowby with open breathers (PCV gone). Thus the engine also didn't stink up the cabin with oil smell while cruising around with open breathers. And yes, the leakdown results staying < 1% each time I checked gave a warm fuzzy feeling as well. As usual, YMMV.

TurboTR

 

[Turbo1dr]

About a month ago I done a hot compression test with my Total Seal gapless 2nd rings. The lowest was 145 and the highest was 150psi. This is with a 226-226 solid roller cam.

I've always used Total Seal gapless second rings in my engine for years without failure. It also done wonders with blowby out the breathers. The way I see it, anytime there's a gap in a ring air will leak by it. Closing the gap or completely eliminating it will keep the compression where it's suppose to be....in the cylinders and not in the crankcase.

 

[Walt03]

Turbo1dr - What was the gap you used for the three different rings to keep the flutter everyone talks about under control?
Did you install the rings dry? with Quickseat? What was your technique?
I figure that since I have the rings, I might as well use them.
Thx

 

[jpwalt1987]

I installed my gapless top stainless rings set with WD40 on the pistons and cylinder walls. Sealed up good and have switched to synthetic with about 6 hours running time on it. NO leakage at all. So far I like them. Time will tell though.:smile:

 

[cool 84]

Anyone have a problem with these passing a ton of oil during low load situations? A number of times now I will be cruising down the freeway under vacuum, hear the worst detonation I've ever heard and looked in the rearview and it's like a mosquito fogger. Seems to be very random. No PCV and open breathers.

 

[Alky V6]

There are other sources the oil could be coming from. Have those been checked and ruled out?