Looking to rebuild my engine, need help on deciding what parts to go with

[xsbc63x]

hey guys i got my engine apart from my 89 tta, and looking to do a mild rebuild, maybe more of a freshening up with some better internals. anyways what are your guys preference in these parts, just looking for a little help with the rebuild.

again i am looking for a mild rebuild, 400-500hp range most likely for a street car that probably will see 5000 miles a year max, maybe some drag racing as well. the turbo i will be running will be a pt52 with 50lb injectors and maybe some alky inj.

heres the list i have come up with


trw forged pistons vs trw hyperutectic

comp roller cam kit vs comp cam with esp performance high oil lifters, double roller chain, stronger springs etc

stock rods vs aftermarket rods

stock pushrods vs chromoly pushrods

stock valves vs stainless valves

and any other suggestions you guys could make for other parts, again im not wanting to spend a ton of money on this, just enough to have decent parts that will handle the power im looking for.

Dave

 

[artrenee10]

hey guys i got my engine apart from my 89 tta, and looking to do a mild rebuild, maybe more of a freshening up with some better internals. anyways what are your guys preference in these parts, just looking for a little help with the rebuild.

again i am looking for a mild rebuild, 400-500hp range most likely for a street car that probably will see 5000 miles a year max, maybe some drag racing as well. the turbo i will be running will be a pt52 with 50lb injectors and maybe some alky inj.

heres the list i have come up with


trw forged pistons vs trw hyperutectic

comp roller cam kit vs comp cam with esp performance high oil lifters, double roller chain, stronger springs etc

stock rods vs aftermarket rods

stock pushrods vs chromoly pushrods

stock valves vs stainless valves

and any other suggestions you guys could make for other parts, again im not wanting to spend a ton of money on this, just enough to have decent parts that will handle the power im looking for.

Dave

I take it these are the choices you are mulling over?

Im pretty sure some others will be chiming in eventually...but for starters......
the SEARCH feature focusing on the Engine Tech section of the forum is your friend...

These engines are built to withstand a lot more than what you are currently pursuing but to give you an idea of a good solid build, here you go...

Billet Main Caps on the Centers

Stock Rods that have been balanced, and shotpeened, resized as well.

TRW Forged Pistons are fine, lots of people run hypers...I say go safe and go forged...

Roller Cam Kit No smaller than a 212@low fives on the lift (504 I believe going off memory) Once again lots of folks still run flat tappet and you can still GET AWAY with a flat cam, but for how long, and if you aren't careful on initial break in that cam will wipe. Don't take the chance, go roller and have peace of mind...

With a roller cam you will have to measure for your pushrods so you will have to order a certain length.....

Go with K-Motion Valve Springs.....A good Double Roller Timing Chain (Maybe, but once again the search button is your friend,)

ARP Main Studs throughout, Head Studs, if you plan on changing out the heads for a significant amount of time. F-Body Rad if it will fit, also go with Ported Heads and Intake, you will feel the benefits of the camshaft going with these....60LB Injectors. Used Translator and LS6 MAF Turbo Tweak chip to accomodate the translator and the alky kit, a 3k-3200 stall Lockup Converter..King Bearings throughout...

A good read is to read Jack Merkel's Engine Assembly and Rebuild process profiled in GMHTP Magazine showcases a few oiling tips and enlargement ideas that some folk forget about....

There now you have a start....

HTH Steve Chambers

 

[gnxtc2]

heres the list i have come up with


trw forged pistons vs trw hyperutectic

comp roller cam kit vs comp cam with esp performance high oil lifters, double roller chain, stronger springs etc

stock rods vs aftermarket rods

stock pushrods vs chromoly pushrods

stock valves vs stainless valves

and any other suggestions you guys could make for other parts, again im not wanting to spend a ton of money on this, just enough to have decent parts that will handle the power im looking for.

Dave

Short block

- Pistons - Diamonds or JE (I run Diamonds)

- Rods - Stock ones with do. Just have them checked out

- Crank - Stock is fine but if you can find a forged one, all the better

- Billet main caps on center two mains

- ARP Main studs

- I like to modify the oiling system for more volume (Alot of opinions on this subject)

- Roller cam. Stay away from flat tappet. Go with a 212 if you are porting your stock heads. 206 is good stock replacement cam.

- Double roller timing chain

Heads

- Depends on your budget. The TTA has different heads than a GN. Atleast have them rebuilt, go with Beehive springs. Measure for pushrods.

- TTA needs different ARP headstuds than a GN due to the heads.

- Stock headers will work fine

- Stock intake will work fine.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[bison]

For your parts there is no need for more than a stock rebuild. Stock pistons are not a problem unless the bores are tapered and need to be bored. Id go with JE or diamond pistons if you over bore. Re-ring with the proper bore finish and follow ring manufacturers instructions. Re-balance if changing pistons. Id use King bearings. Go for a roller cam. You dont need more than 210 duration and .500 lift. Id clean up under the valves and get a good valve job. No need to change valves. Blue print the stock oil pump and replace the gears with a new set. If any metal ever went through the engine get rid of the oil cooler or buy a new radiator since it cant be cleaned out if its full of metal. Spend the saved $ on head/intake work and a good TC or intercooler.

 

[xsbc63x]

are the je or diamond pistons that much better than trw? have many people had problems with the trw?

 

[artrenee10]

are the je or diamond pistons that much better than trw? have many people had problems with the trw?

Nah, TRW's are a good forged piston on a budge the Diamonds and JE's are good, but they are a bit pricey..........

 

[charlief1]

TRW are a good budget "one size fits all" piston but je and diamond make them in many different aplications so you get what you want, but the price almost doubles, but they are lighter.

 

[xsbc63x]

now the comp roller cam kit, is that the one to have?

 

[artrenee10]

Yes and no...

If you got the bucks look into Full Throttle Speed and Style for their roller cam kits...they have some really good split duration grinds...Thats the route I would have went if I hadn't came across a real good deal on my own camshaft....

You can also post a parts wanted ad in the of course parts wanted section of the board...you will get responses trust me......and piece it together that way, if money is continuously an issue...

or flatlanderracing.com has some really good roller cam kits from Comp Cams and there is a guy on Ebay who is taking best offer on his roller cam kits as well..

Also sent a pm back...
Steve Chambers

 

[xsbc63x]

what do you guys think about wiseco pistons?

 

[artrenee10]

what do you guys think about wiseco pistons?

Good

 

[turbofabricator]

I agree mostly with Bison.

Re-ring the stock short block IF it needs anything. (leave it alone if it a low mile engine) The STOCK short block is safe beyond 500 hp. I have built stock block cars that run in the tens all day long. Tune your engine for ZERO detonation, and the stock block will live into the 600+ range. If you want stout, and a couple of grand isn't going to kill you, then buy a set of forged pistons, K1 rods, steel caps (or better yet a girdle-IMO) forged crank, roller cam.
Now, to get what you really want, spend the money on a good set of ported iron heads. A mild port job will get you good mid range power increases, for moderate money. The stock valves can even be retained, though stainless valves would be better. Roller cams are the prefered choice, BUT hydraulic roller lifters from Comp are a CRAP-SHOOT! I have had TERRIBLE luck with Comp's lifters, lately.
Morel is suppose to be making lifters for our engines, soon, though. Well worth the additional money IF they are proven to work. So far, most of the GM/Ford/Mopar guys swear by them. (not AT them like the Comp hydraulic lifters )
Save your money on the rebuild, if it is not hurt, now. Spend your money on a good set of ported iron heads, good cam, and ported intake. 70mm throttle body, bigger turbo, better intercooler, 60lb. injectors, matching chip, 3" or bigger down pipe, good exhaust. The short block is perfectly safe at the HP levels you are shooting for.
NOW........a little disclaimer.........If you are like 90% of the guys out there, you are heading into a dangerous zone. It is like drugs. "OH.......I only like a little buzz after work, but soon you are laying in the middle of the sidewalk with a needle in your arm. Horsepower is VERY addictive. (and just as dangerous, except that you will find yourself laying in the middle of the sidewalk after hitting a telephone pole ) So, if you NEVER plan on pushing the car beyond 500 hp., leave the stock short block alone. If you have tendencies to push things, step up and upgrade your engine. Do it once, and do it right. (forged everything, and steel caps or girdle)
TRW pistons are a good piston and can be easily made lighter by replacing the HEAVY pins. But that puts you close in price to a JE/Diamond/Wiseco. The other benifit of a JE/Diamond/Wiseco is that you can get them in .020" over bore, but TRW's only come in .030". Plan on over bore of .020", so you have two more bore options. (.020", .030", and .040" std. shelf stock pistons from JE)

 

[bison]

I agree mostly with Bison.

Re-ring the stock short block IF it needs anything. (leave it alone if it a low mile engine) The STOCK short block is safe beyond 500 hp. I have built stock block cars that run in the tens all day long. Tune your engine for ZERO detonation, and the stock block will live into the 600+ range. If you want stout, and a couple of grand isn't going to kill you, then buy a set of forged pistons, K1 rods, steel caps (or better yet a girdle-IMO) forged crank, roller cam.
Now, to get what you really want, spend the money on a good set of ported iron heads. A mild port job will get you good mid range power increases, for moderate money. The stock valves can even be retained, though stainless valves would be better. Roller cams are the prefered choice, BUT hydraulic roller lifters from Comp are a CRAP-SHOOT! I have had TERRIBLE luck with Comp's lifters, lately.
Morel is suppose to be making lifters for our engines, soon, though. Well worth the additional money IF they are proven to work. So far, most of the GM/Ford/Mopar guys swear by them. (not AT them like the Comp hydraulic lifters )
Save your money on the rebuild, if it is not hurt, now. Spend your money on a good set of ported iron heads, good cam, and ported intake. 70mm throttle body, bigger turbo, better intercooler, 60lb. injectors, matching chip, 3" or bigger down pipe, good exhaust. The short block is perfectly safe at the HP levels you are shooting for.
NOW........a little disclaimer.........If you are like 90% of the guys out there, you are heading into a dangerous zone. It is like drugs. "OH.......I only like a little buzz after work, but soon you are laying in the middle of the sidewalk with a needle in your arm. Horsepower is VERY addictive. (and just as dangerous, except that you will find yourself laying in the middle of the sidewalk after hitting a telephone pole ) So, if you NEVER plan on pushing the car beyond 500 hp., leave the stock short block alone. If you have tendencies to push things, step up and upgrade your engine. Do it once, and do it right. (forged everything, and steel caps or girdle)
TRW pistons are a good piston and can be easily made lighter by replacing the HEAVY pins. But that puts you close in price to a JE/Diamond/Wiseco. The other benifit of a JE/Diamond/Wiseco is that you can get them in .020" over bore, but TRW's only come in .030". Plan on over bore of .020", so you have two more bore options. (.020", .030", and .040" std. shelf stock pistons from JE)

Good post

 

[bison]

Yes and no...

If you got the bucks look into Full Throttle Speed and Style for their roller cam kits...they have some really good split duration grinds...Thats the route I would have went if I hadn't came across a real good deal on my own camshaft....

You can also post a parts wanted ad in the of course parts wanted section of the board...you will get responses trust me......and piece it together that way, if money is continuously an issue...

or flatlanderracing.com has some really good roller cam kits from Comp Cams and there is a guy on Ebay who is taking best offer on his roller cam kits as well..

Also sent a pm back...
Steve Chambers

To my knowledge FT's roller kits which are a great deal uses the same comp 853 lifters that most kits come with. Maybe mike will chime in and confirm this.

 

[xsbc63x]

well im kinda putting something together now as far as what i want, i will be taking the engine in to the machine shop tomorrow and have them check it out for me, they said they will check the cylinders out and see if it needs boring or if they can just hone the cylinders out, i will be running stock rods, trw pistons if it just needs honing, .020 wiesco if it needs boring, im thinking of going the roller cam route, and having the heads and intake ported as well. im not sure if i want to do the billet caps or a girdle or just keep the stock stuff. like i said its going in my tta, so i think the intercooler is out of the question.

 

[turbofabricator]

well im kinda putting something together now as far as what i want, i will be taking the engine in to the machine shop tomorrow and have them check it out for me, they said they will check the cylinders out and see if it needs boring or if they can just hone the cylinders out, i will be running stock rods, trw pistons if it just needs honing, .020 wiesco if it needs boring, im thinking of going the roller cam route, and having the heads and intake ported as well. im not sure if i want to do the billet caps or a girdle or just keep the stock stuff. like i said its going in my tta, so i think the intercooler is out of the question.

If you are goin gto install it in a TTA, everything changes. The TTA has a deeper dish in the piston than a GN/T does. The TTA has smaller combustion chamber heads. The TRW pistons will NEED to be machined to deepen the dish. If the block only needs honing, stay with the stock TTA pistons. If it needs boring, make SURE you give the piston manufacturer the exact measurments of the piston dish needed. Your machine shop should be able to handle this for you. I'm confused as to why change pistons to TRW if it only needs honing? Again, TRW pistons do not have a deep enough dish for a TTA head.
You CAN install a Precision front mount intercooler in a TTA. I have done it. Here are the pictures. It does take some "doing" to get it to fit in the car. This particular car is lowered about 3" and I had to use oval tubng to get enough ground clearance. But if your car is no that low, std. 3" tubing will work with 3" silicone 90+ elbows. Down pipe is gonna be a big concern, too. The TTA is a PAIN to get anything to fit. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/239280-tta-front-mount-modification.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/256786-finally-finished-tta-fab-project.html

 

[xsbc63x]

i was going to change the pistons to trw or wiesco because if im rebuilding it i might as well, they arent much more than stock pistons, however i did not know they were different than gn/t pistons, and getting aftermarket may be an issue than. also why dont you make up a front mount like the one in the link for me!

 

[bison]

If you are goin gto install it in a TTA, everything changes. The TTA has a deeper dish in the piston than a GN/T does. The TTA has smaller combustion chamber heads. The TRW pistons will NEED to be machined to deepen the dish. If the block only needs honing, stay with the stock TTA pistons. If it needs boring, make SURE you give the piston manufacturer the exact measurments of the piston dish needed. Your machine shop should be able to handle this for you. I'm confused as to why change pistons to TRW if it only needs honing? Again, TRW pistons do not have a deep enough dish for a TTA head.
You CAN install a Precision front mount intercooler in a TTA. I have done it. Here are the pictures. It does take some "doing" to get it to fit in the car. This particular car is lowered about 3" and I had to use oval tubng to get enough ground clearance. But if your car is no that low, std. 3" tubing will work with 3" silicone 90+ elbows. Down pipe is gonna be a big concern, too. The TTA is a PAIN to get anything to fit. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/239280-tta-front-mount-modification.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/256786-finally-finished-tta-fab-project.html

This is all correct. You will have over 9.0:1 if you run pistons for an 87 with the TTA heads.

 

[xsbc63x]

This is all correct. You will have over 9.0:1 if you run pistons for an 87 with the TTA heads.

will i have piston to valve clerance issues as well?

 

[turbofabricator]

will i have piston to valve clerance issues as well?

That depands on what cam, but most likely, No. You WILL want to verify though.