Low 11 second cars - what are you using?

[Raven]

Ok, so I'm going to replace the stock setup on my '87 GN - finally. It has 55k miles on it and I want to go low 11's or maybe eventually high 10's (and I've been told I need heads/cam to get there).

The bottom line is which turbo/downpipe/exhaust combo could get me closest there (and how close could I expect?) with stock heads/cam and then IF I do end up replacing the the heads and cam, would still have enough smoke left to take me into the 10's? I would rather not buy twice IF I can get away with that so that's why I'm asking now but if need be, I can.

Will my 009's work ok with a low 11 second Turbo or do I need to go with 50's now and get it over with?

Of course the magic 'Catch-all' is that I want it to be easily streetable and if that means high 10's are out of the question, so be it.

A converter is a definite and the advice I've been getting is something around 2800-3000 stall with lockup. Suggestions?

I've been told a -60 is what would do the trick - care to tell me what you're -60 and combo is and would you do it again OR go another route?

Current mods are in the sig - basic bolt ons. Thanks for any and all responses.

 

[c&cgn]

I would look at a PTE54 or a TE61 as the minimum required. I know several guys in the 11.0 and high 10 range with the 54 (and the 61 is basically the same turbo).

I would go a little bigger on the injectors for safety sake. The 50's are the minimum but I think the High Z 55 (57's ?) would be a good choice. I understand they use the same chip that the Low Z 55's use so there should be tons of guys who can burn a god chip for them.

About a 3400 stall is needed for the 54/61 and is perfectly streetable.

You should be able to go bottom 11's on the stock longblock. Add the heads and cam and you have an 11.0 - 10.80 type of ride.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Well I'll throw in my 2 cents here. I think turbo you will need a 60 or 61 with at least 50# injectors to run the times you want unless you want to run extremely high boost on a smaller turbo. So yeah step up to the 50#s if you'll be happy with low 11s and maybe a stray 10.99 some point. For that 60 or 61 I'd go with a nice 3200 stall 9/11 convertor as well. It will definatly help to get head and cam work done but with a good topend it is possible to run what you want on the stock stuff. My combo is a little milder than that, but similar. i have not heard of many people breaking bottom 11s with a 44 and a 12" stall, but I'm gonna give it all its got when I get the tranny back together.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

You're gonna have to squeeze every bit of performance out of the car with a 61 and 50s to get into the 10s. With stock heads your gonna have to run some real high boost numbers to do it.

I'd say its best to go a little bigger rather than run on the ragged edge.

I'd say a te 63, 54, or 45, 55lb injectors, and a nice AC 19930 3500 n/l converter. I was afraid of the 3500 until I put it in the car. I can barely tell the difference from the stock D5. I actually like it better, cuz you don't have the annoying locking and unlocking at cruise. I run a total of 200 more rpm at 65 mph, so thats not bad at all. Slap a nice set of ported steels on there and you'd be able to run 10s with fairly low boost (mid to low 20s). With the smaller turbos and stock heads you're gonna need to run 30+ lbs to hit 10s.

 

[CopGn]

I have been doing the research for a low to mid 11 sec car that I could drive on the street and this is what I cam up with.

New PT 67 turbo with the new Garrett wheels.

9" n/l 3200 converter.

50 injectors. Bigger will let me run more boost as the 50 will only run 24lbs max with the 67 but to do that is flirting with breaking the mostly stock block, trans, and rear end.

Front mount, probably precision. Still thinking on which front mount as money is always an issue.

Plenum and stock maf ported by jay carter.

RJC plate.

340 walboro. Getting rid of external pump.

Adjustable regulator, Trans cooler, oil filter relocation kit.

Any and all comments will be appreciated. Told with bigger injectors, head work, and cam car would be in the high 10's

 

[azgn]

realistically, a low 11 sec ride needs better heads or you are gonna be running crazy boost to get there...I put my '45A on before the heads were done and 30 lbs was the norm (and that was for 11.20's)

if you want a reliable low 11 car, build a 10 sec car.....that means heads, cam, and the ability to run good (1.5x) 60' times

turbos smaller than a 45 or 63 ain't enough.......the supporting cast would include at least 55 lbers, a good I/C (doesn't have to be a front mount) 3" downpipe of the TH design, slicks, race gas, built trans, trans brake, 3500+ stall converter, built rear suspension to include control arms, shocks, springs, sway bar and a good chip to manage it all (I recommend the ME)


of course, an engine rebuild to include steel caps, will eventually be necessary, so you may as well do that now also

it seems that many of the bench racers on this board believe that TR's are "easy" low 11 sec cars......not true...as those who have been there will readily attest

they are, however, easy mid 11 sec cars......put your goals there, and you'll get it done easier, cheaper, more reliably, and won't give up much in the streetability area

 

[8URCBR]

AZGN is right! A good set of heads and good cam are neccessary for a streetable high 10/low 11 sec ride. 55# injectors are a good idea also.....fuel is a good thing to have, besides, i think my 55#ers are more tunable and streetable than my old MSD 50's. I dont think people realize the difference between 11.50's and 11.00's. A high 10/low 11 sec street car takes a lot of work, time, tuning and money. I have been trying to get into the 10's for 2 years now. Finally i have the combination to get it done.

 

[c&cgn]

Originally posted by azgn
realistically, a low 11 sec ride needs better heads or you are gonna be running crazy boost to get there...I put my '45A on before the heads were done and 30 lbs was the norm (and that was for 11.20's)

it seems that many of the bench racers on this board believe that TR's are "easy" low 11 sec cars......not true...as those who have been there will readily attest

they are, however, easy mid 11 sec cars......put your goals there, and you'll get it done easier, cheaper, more reliably, and won't give up much in the streetability area

Of course, you're at altitude and your tmeprerature and humidity don't help much either. Guys do it here all the time with less, but we are at sea level and below sometimes, and that makes a huge difference. I'm sure I would have done better than 11.38 had my tranny not been slipping recently, and/or I went with a 54 instead of the 52 turbo

 

[Raven]

Low vs mid 11's

Hmmm... some really good feedback here and I truly appreciate all the comments.

Ok, so if I shoot for easy mid 11's and set aside the very low 11's and the hard-to-attain high 10's, what do I need to get there 'easily? Still do the heads and cam plus a bigger Turbo than say a -44 or -51?

At first I was thinking of going with either a -44 or something similar or one of the new GT series of Garretts. I had thought that that should get me mid 11's. Yet, I've heard that the -44 is about at its end at the mid-11's and that's not necessarily a good thing - is that your experience? And, how seriously should I think about the heads/cam route along with it? Sounds like the motor will definitely breath easier and thus need less boost so I certainly like that idea.

Also, the steel caps are a great suggestion so I'll give that some deep thought too as I get further into the project.

 

[8URCBR]

As far as the caps and girdle are concerned.....they are not needed if your goal is mid-low 11's. high 10's and they are a good idea.

A TE-44, TA-49, PT-51 would be sufficient if you have the heads and cam to compliment them. I ran 11.90 @ 114 with the 49 and stock heads/cam with 25psi and a 1.79 60'. With heads/cam/little better 60', i would have been in the 11.30-11.60 range.

Then if you want to get balzy and turn the boost up past 28psi, i dont see any reason why you couldnt get some low 11's.

 

[azgn]

a ta-49 and some other stuff, will get you into the high 11's easy enough........at that point it is mostly tuning and a lot of boost....you give up nothing in that configuration as far as street driving (except you need a roll bar.....)

wanna go a little faster? a bit bigger turbo (60 series) bigger converter, and you are there

11.5 and down is race car territory if on a regular basis....maybe 11.3 at sea level...our density altitudes are so bad here, who knows? (all I know is all the guys that come to Vegas from the cool country have problems....)

 

[1of1035]

FWIW, I've been 11.58 with my current combo. I talked to my mechanic a few days asking what I need to get low 10's. He told me bigger injectors and a converter. I got a vigilante 9.5 l/u 3200 and waiting on the injectors. I didn't really break the bank on the build up either. Also have a ATR 314b cam not listed in sig. HTH

 

[azgn]

low 10's with a converter and injectors?

find another mechanic

maybe you meant low 11's? but you'll need more than injectors and a converter

 

[c&cgn]

Originally posted by azgn
low 10's with a converter and injectors?

find another mechanic

maybe you meant low 11's? but you'll need more than injectors and a converter

ditto that!

 

[CopGn]

New PT 67 turbo with the new Garrett wheels.

9" n/l 3200 converter.

50 injectors. Bigger will let me run more boost as the 50 will only run 24lbs max with the 67 but to do that is flirting with breaking the mostly stock block, trans, and rear end.

Front mount, probably precision. Still thinking on which front mount as money is always an issue.

Plenum and stock maf ported by jay carter.

RJC plate.

340 walboro. Getting rid of external pump.

Adjustable regulator, Trans cooler, oil filter relocation kit.

AZGN what do you think this would run with a poor 2.00 60 ft or with a 1.75 60 ft

 

[azgn]

dunno......but if your heads are stock, you are sorta wasting that turbo....it'll still need lots of boost to make power....

why would you want to run a 2.0 60' time? at the drag strip, your 60' time usually determines how you run the 1320........a better 60' is the cheapest power you can buy!

 

[CopGn]

I don't want to run a bad 60 but I am running a 17 X 9.5 inch rim and will be going to a drag radial. My car is dropped 2 inches with very stiff front springs and big sway bar. With this I expect to have a bad 60. 1/4 mile to me is second as I am more interested in a very fast street car with room to upgrade. My heads have a little porting and motor was rebuilt with forged pistons. How much can I expect with fully worked heads?

 

[c&cgn]

Originally posted by CopGn
I don't want to run a bad 60 but I am running a 17 X 9.5 inch rim and will be going to a drag radial. My car is dropped 2 inches with very stiff front springs and big sway bar. With this I expect to have a bad 60. 1/4 mile to me is second as I am more interested in a very fast street car with room to upgrade. My heads have a little porting and motor was rebuilt with forged pistons. How much can I expect with fully worked heads?

I would say run what ya got and see what it does. Baseline it first and make improvements from there.

 

[DonnieShort]

I'm at the mid 11 range with the combo in my sig. Car is consistant as can be, but it seems that it gets a little faster each trip to the track, but I know that soon I'll be hitting the stopping point. The last time out it ran 11.54, 11.67, 11.59, 11.56 at 115-116mph ( the .67 run didn't get off the line very well ) with 60's in the 1.62-1.65 range. Times were on 25psi and 25° with C16 and slicks. The best part is that it's as streetable as can be and gets very good mileage considering I have a n/l converter.

 

[1of1035]

Originally posted by azgn
low 10's with a converter and injectors?

find another mechanic

maybe you meant low 11's? but you'll need more than injectors and a converter

Sorry I meant high 10's very low 11's. I'll be happy with a 10.99 slip. My mistake. Low 10's isn't anywhere in the near future.