Meth Fuel System Questions?

[Alky V6]

Thanks. What do you run for fuel lines on your car? Also do you add anything for lube etc to your Meth?

I run stainless braided rubber line. They last about as well as they do with gasoline. The rubber in the lines I purchase do well with the methanol. I run Klotz upper lube. In my case, it works better than the VP upper lube.

How often do you have to flush your system, and is your car a strict race car or do you sometimes drive it on the street?

I flush the whole system with pump gasoline after a weekend of racing. It is strictly used for racing. It is very driveable though. I use a combination of electronic and mechanical injector nozzles with a Weldon pump supplying both with 44 psi idle pressure.

Also when jetting your nitrous do you exactly double the amount of meth (eg on a 100 Shot run 200 Shot fuel jets)? Sorry for all the questions just trying to get some first hand info on this fuel. Thanks Ron

I've come to the conclusion that you want to jet your nitrous system HP level as you would with gasoline. If you're looking for a 100 shot, jet the nitrous oxide side of the system as you would for a 100 shot system using gasoline. On the fuel side of the nitrous system, the jet will need to be much larger of course because of the different nitrous/fuel ratio with methanol.

I discuss my fuel system in great detail in these threads:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/alcohol-nitrous-propane-tech/226149-advancement-fuel-delivery.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/time-slip-combo-database/234706-9-19-145-5-alky-car.html

If you have any other questions, please ask.

 

[Revolution]

I was told that rubber well degrade very quickly on meth? Also when your talking about your fuel side of your nitrous when you say alot larger are you talking about twice the amount of meth or twice the shot as opposed to running on gas. Thanks your info is invaluable. I well read both your threads. Thanks again Ron

 

[Alky V6]

I'm not sure how many types of stainless steel braided rubber lines are out there, but the lines I get hold up very well to methanol. They hold up well to nitro also.

In my opinion the rubber used in the lines is not a space age grade.

They can develop leaks in a couple years. Most racers using steel braided lines will change them out after a year or two regardless of the fuel used. Some of the lines on my car have been in there for over 5 years now.

When you are picking the HP level of your nitrous system with methanol as the fuel, use the nitrous oxide jet size to pick the HP level. For instance, you want a 100 HP nitrous system using methanol as the fuel. A 46 jet size will flow 273.6 lbs/hr with a bottle pressure of 1050 psi. This will provide an estimated HP level of 95 HP with gasoline as the fuel. If you're burning gasoline with the nitrous, an a/f ratio of 4.5:1 through 6:1 is considered safe. When the fuel you burn is methanol with your nitrous system, the stoich a/f ratio is 4.13:1. Stoich is not the ratio you want to use though. I run my nitrous system with an a/f ratio of 2.4:1. So you do want to run about twice as much methanol compared to gasoline lbs/hr for the same overall HP level of the system with either fuel.

 

[Revolution]

Great info! Thanks

 

[Dave Flanders]

I'll weigh in on this as this is what I've been doing with my car for quite a few years now - mostly race with some street cruise time thrown in....

If you can keep up with the maintainance methanol can be as easy to run as gas. Unlike most people, I don't flush my system after a race, once it gets filled the first time in the spring it usually doesn't get flushed until the season ends. As long as the hardware is methanol compatible (like stainless hard lines, hard anodized aluminum fittings, injection type rubber hoses, etc..) keeping the methanol fully in the system doesn't attack parts as bad as advertised. Once you get some water mixed in, or let it go dry is when most of the corrosion and loose debris happens.

A large fuel filter (I use a fine screen 6" Oberg) as close to the injectors as practical will help a lot.

Don't even think about any kind of mechanical system unless you've got lots of time, money and parts to burn getting it right. That's how mine is set up and it's not for the faint of heart. There's plenty of data out there now for someone to supply a good base tune for EFI, but remember to listen to what the motor wants first, this stuff is not like gas only running richer.

Make sure you have room in your intake for 3 injectors per cylinder, you might get by with a pair of 160's but it doesn't give much headroom.

 

[Revolution]

Great info! I was told 8 1600cc Inj are good for around 1200Hp on a 4 cylinder from a guy who races competitively. Does this sound right? Where did you get your s/s line from? Also do you use any topend lube etc..?

 

[Dave Flanders]

Great info! I was told 8 1600cc Inj are good for around 1200Hp on a 4 cylinder from a guy who races competitively. Does this sound right? Where did you get your s/s line from? Also do you use any topend lube etc..?

This is just the discussion I was having with DonWG on another thread. I've seen people using 8 160's (or possibly 212's) on a 4 cylinder but for whatever reason my 4 cylinder is currently using well over 410cc's per runner. I still haven't had the time to double check all my math but those numbers are not very far off.

Car weighs 3050 and has run 153.72 best mph.

When they claim "X" injector is good for "X" horsepower what BSFC are they using? A lot of fuel will go towards charge cooling if running non intercooled.

All the MFI (Alan Dudley system) cars seem to use 3 injectors per cylinder. These are BBC's at about 2500+ hp.

I made my hard fuel lines from the stainless tubing in a nitrous fogger kit. Other times I've used injector hoses from Ron's Racing.

Most times I use Power Plus lube but have heard real good things about the Klotz.

 

[Alky V6]

That sounds about right. You'll be maxing all the injectors at 85% for that HP.

I've found that even anodized aluminum fittings will start to corrode. It will be sporatic though. Some fittings will last a very long time, while a few will start having problems. Might have something to do with how well they were anodized. If you can find hard anodized aluminum fittings or stainless, all the better.

Dave's right about the methanol not corroding as long as it is dry and full. The problem I have is that I may store my car for 2 to 4 weeks between events, and normal evaporation makes corrosion a problem if I leave the methanol in there.

For some reason the braided rubber lines breathe a lot. Fuel evaporation right through the rubber lines is a real problem if the car sits a lot.

 

[Revolution]

Thanks guys your help and info is very much appreciated. I well keep you posted as this project comes together.

 

[DavzGN]

You still never addressed that a meth kit with one or two nozzles won't give you a even amount of fueling across all cylinders? This was one of my major concerns.

If the Meth is mixed evenly in the air while in the intake, the Meth to air ratio should be the same in all cylinders. The amount of meth may be different in each cylinder but it should be in proportion to the amount of air in each cylinder.
So if you have 1cc of meth mixed evenly in 100cc of air and that air flow is divided into 4 cylinders in the amounts of 23cc, 26cc, 24cc, and 27cc of air, you should have 0.23cc, 0.26cc, 0.24cc and 0.27cc of meth in the respective cylinders.

Like Razor said, if the air is oversaturated with Meth, the meth will settle out of the air and will not be distributed evenly.

HTH
David