New motor with bottom end noise

[Otto J]

Ok, lets think about this for a minute. He sent them the motor for a complete rebuild. On a complete rebuild, they are supposed to verify that the crank is good. (i.e. journals, no cracks, concentric, etc.) How does a "supposed" good crank go bad after only 38 miles? Like my title states, I call BS! Just my .02 cents.

Chris

If the bearings are starved for oil it can ruin one journal enough where the crank is scrap and in less than 38 miles.

Was it the thrust bearing,rod bearing, or main bearing?

 

[QUIP'6']

apparently the builder says the crank is scrap and one bearing starved for oil... charging him to fix it... apparently they are trying to work with him on the price though.

WHAT!!! THAT IS B.S. He needs to out them if they are blaming him. i guess they wont reinburse him for the commetics. what a$$holes

 

[lv2tikt]

Blown up sir

Man that stinks.....why dont you build your own motor if as your title says #1Pittsburgh Buick Mechanic? little confused here? i guess the builder was #2 then? guess thats why your not so fast to blast them on the boards \... Good luck

 

[Grumpy]

WHAT!!! i guess they wont reinburse him for the commetics. what a$$holes

I'd reuse them.. one problem solved

 

[stagemonster]

If the bearings are starved for oil it can ruin one journal enough where the crank is scrap and in less than 38 miles.

Was it the thrust bearing,rod bearing, or main bearing?

thay said it was a rod bearing

 

[stagemonster]

Man that stinks.....why dont you build your own motor if as your title says #1Pittsburgh Buick Mechanic? little confused here? i guess the builder was #2 then? guess thats why your not so fast to blast them on the boards \... Good luck

It was included in the price thats why they put it together.

 

[QUIP'6']

It was included in the price thats why they put it together.

so what and why are they charging you

 

[stagemonster]

they said that one bearing was starved for oil and thats not their fault cause because they didnt find any debri in motor but wouldnt you think that the filter would have caught any and their was all kinds of metal in the filter and i had a filter mag on it too

 

[t-typinator]

Things arn't quite adding up,Did they do All the machine work on the crank + rods,install all the bearings,assemble it etc, in other words,do everything on the build of this motor, build you a complete short block? If so everything should have been checked out to make sure all parts were servicable,then machined properly,checked + double checked,assembled with care + guaranteed to work correctly.
If within 30 miles it dies from a rod bearing being starved of oil, then, unless there is more to the story ,it sounds like they should warranty the motor that ate itself almost immedietly after they rebuilt it, unless they can come up with something you did wrong after it was given to you.
what are they saying is the Cause of the lack of oil to the bearing,are they blaming it on the bearing,on something you did, or what are they saying the cause is ? They can't just say it's not our fault, the bearing just starved itself, but had nothing to do with the fact that we just rebuilt it, thats the whole reason you have a motor rebuilt,so you are starting with everything,fresh + new + in perfect working order,That is the service you are paying for.
One other thing i would be thinking about is if they are not going to fix it free,why would you want the same place,that just built you a 30 mile motor,doing your motor again? Unless they had good reason why this happened,+ why they shouldn't be fixing it free,I wouldn't want them near another motor of mine.
If there is something i'm missing here then i apologize to the builder,but from the info given it sounds like they should be fixing it.

 

[88 CuttyClassic]

explained it to pops and he said thats BS too.. i mean 38 miles..come on. if it was like 400 500 and you started getting into boost but 38 miles...the thing wasnt right from the gate. In just about any business you have to take some responsibility. i mean even what i do we give the customer the benifit of the doubt and in most cases do right by them. its just good business. It sucks ur out all the money and even more importantly time and agrivation. but lucky for you the TR world is a small group in the scheme of things. It would behove them to fix it at no additional cost. one experience like yours could sour others.

 

[turbobuick]

First off Sh!t happens even to the best of engine builders, its all in how they take care of things afterwards that tells of their true character.

I would think a lack of oil to a rod bearing would make noise on start up and from the word go. To hear the motor was fine on start up and break in then started having problems after 38 miles doesn't seem right. That sounds A LOT more like a thrust issue or an oiling system problem which would've taken out the mains.

Was it a GM cover or Chinese one? Did you check the front cover oil feed holes and the gasket alignment? Did you put the cover and oil pump together or did the machine shop?

It doesn't sound to me like you have a reasonable explanation as to why it happened yet. I would want to see the motor torn down and personally inspect the mess before moving forward. Where other parts in the motor oiled correctly especially in the top end? How did the other bearings look specifically the mains and the thrust? Where they damaged from debris, lack of oil or have uneven wear? How did the one rod bearing look that went bad? What did the other rods look like?

If it where a single rod bearing the only thing I could see it being is they forgot to torque the bolts on that rod but I would think you would hear that on start up. Or the big end was machined incorrectly and was seriously out of round, but I would think you could get away with that for longer than 38 miles.

I agree it doesn't add up and there are still a lot of unanswered questions IMO.

 

[Esasky's85GN]

Exactly!

That is where I was going with my post about 6 posts ago. turbobuick and t-typinator are both correct. Bearing clearance, thrust, rod and main and journal roundness should have been verified. All oil passenges should have been clean and deburred if necessary. This is all the responsibility of the engine builder! If the bearing workmanship was the culprit (i.e. soft or inconsistent babit coating) then they as a "preferred" builder should take care of the customer and hash it out with the bearing manufacturer. Seems to me that some one is getting the shaft here. Hope they lubed it up 1st J. I would fight this one tooth and nail pal.

 

[RED LS1]

Terrible situation. Hope it gets straightened out.


Now out them already. No reason to keep secrets. Your not bashing them. Just stating your experience.

Is it time???

 

[WSLN 6]

If they assembled the bottom end, this is their problem, not yours. Probably would have been a good idea to give it an oil change after the first heat cycle. (not saying that caused it...)
I had my former engine toast a bearing in 49 miles, bent the crank etc. Lost prime while the car sat waiting for a tranny after I did an oil change. Oops.
Be tough with them, there is no way you should be on the hook for this IMO.

 

[WSLN 6]

Oh, a side note. Do you happen to be running a turbo saver or other pre-filter before the turbo? If not this may be getting more expensive. :frown:

 

[88 CuttyClassic]

Oh, a side note. Do you happen to be running a turbo saver or other pre-filter before the turbo? If not this may be getting more expensive. :frown:

luckily he does have one on this car.

 

[ryan319]

That sucks. And I know because I toasted a fresh motor shortly after a rebuild but I got about 1200 miles out of mine. Stagemonster I think that you were at the track the night it started knocking. My issue was oil starvation (oil pump issue). But all my bearings were beat up (mains way worse than the rods). If it was just one rod as they claim then I would have to think that it was either not machined right or not assembled right. If they did the front cover and oil pump then they should really take care of you. Especially after only 38 miles. But most shops don't warranty performance motors.

 

[stagemonster]

they told me every other bearing in the motor was fine. The guy there told me the solution would be a deep sump pan for more oil but if that were the case dont you think it would have starved more than one bearing and also he had the nerve to ask me if i put enuff oil in the motor. I had one quart in the filter filled the turbosavers lines with oil and had almost 5 and a half in the pan when i primed the motor. The other thing that made me mad was they wanted to inspect it when i was there and before i brought it to them they told me not to take anything apart including the heads even though they just did the shortblock. They were the ones that installed the timing cover also and did the port work to it. Also the guy said that my bearings looked like i detonated it but i never even hooked up the wastegate rod so that i wouldnt get any boost to it and the scanmaster never showed any either.

 

[t-typinator]

they told me every other bearing in the motor was fine. The guy there told me the solution would be a deep sump pan for more oil but if that were the case dont you think it would have starved more than one bearing and also he had the nerve to ask me if i put enuff oil in the motor. I had one quart in the filter filled the turbosavers lines with oil and had almost 5 and a half in the pan when i primed the motor. The other thing that made me mad was they wanted to inspect it when i was there and before i brought it to them they told me not to take anything apart including the heads even though they just did the shortblock. They were the ones that installed the timing cover also and did the port work to it. Also the guy said that my bearings looked like i detonated it but i never even hooked up the wastegate rod so that i wouldnt get any boost to it and the scanmaster never showed any either.

Inspecting it while you were there is a good idea,i would have absolutely wanted to be there when it came apart,so i could see exactly what happened.
A regular pan should be sufficient to have oiled it properly for the amount + type of driving you explained, hell a squirt of vegetable oil should have taken you 38 miles. + it keeps coming back to that 1 bearing ,if the motor was starving for oil why did just that 1 rod bearing take such a beating ,that it destroyed the crank,+ put so much metal in the filter + pan in such a short time,yet everything else is fine? why just that 1 rod bearing? Its too bad you didn't have another machinest look at it,+ too bad you were not there at the tear down,have you inspected it since it came apart ? If not i think it would be worth your while to check it out.
I've had alot of motors built over the yrs,+ a few bad ones,+ never did a machine shop just say ok i screwed up,i'll make it right,i had to push them to make it right,they made every excuse in the book + tried to blame everybody else,even when it was clearly + without a doubt, their fault,+ then it was a battle to get them to get it done,once they couldn't deny it anymore.(I'm not sayng that is what is happening here,that has just been my experience).
I had a shop build me a complete blower motor,he put a line that he was all proud of on the blower,so that if it built up too much pressure it would blow the excess oil into the oil pan to relieve the pressure,but nothing to replenish it with oil so about the third time i got on it,the blower had no more oil in it,+ munched itself,he blamed it on me,the gas,the oil manufacturer,the blower manufacturer,god,mother theresa,the weather,you name it,even with a blower with his blow off line + nothing to refeed it after it blew off the oil,staring him right in the face,he still would not take the blame,finally had to get a lawyer + threaten to go after triple damages + court costs then he finally,said he would fix it,but still wasn't admitting any wrong doing,i had to make him admit in writing,that his line emptied the blower of oil + killed the blower,+ that he would fix it completely,before i would cancel the lawsuit, it was the only thing that could have ran the blower dry,but he knew it was going to cost him time + money so he wouldn't admit it + make good on it, + that was the biggest most well known shop in the area,he even owned + raced his own dragster/funny car,it wasn't just a rinky dink shop.
Thats just one of a few different machine shop problems i've had of not making good,I just stopped having motors built,+ pretty much only buy running cars now with proven motors,I was just about to buy a complete ,newly built motor this week,but after reading about yours it brought back old memories + i decided against it, i was already thinking about the bad possibilities,because of the past + yours just reaffirmed it.
Good luck + i would push for them to make good unless they can come up with a good reason why the motor they just built couldn't make it to 40 miles. The oil pan excuse just isn't cuttin it. Did they test the oil pump? Was the top end being oiled ok?
I just reread the post + notice you said,That they said all the other bearings look fine but,in another spot you said, that they said the bearings look like you detonated it,what is wrong with the other bearings that made them look like there was detonation? I would go to the shop + inspect this whole thing yourself if you havn't already.good luck.

 

[forcefed3.8's]

they told me every other bearing in the motor was fine.

Are you sure they said that?