Originally posted by bruce
But why play with fire?.
Look at the number of folks blowing head gaskets around here.
It's like anything (even 55s) ... you don't go out and crank the boost to 30 psi on the first pass without knowing where you are at. You sneak up on the tune. Start low and monitor, make a change, monitor, tweak ... repeat until you are happy.
Up until recently, the 36s were a VERY good combo for a mostly street car that could bust off an 11 at the strip. It looks like the 009s (and to some extent the 50s) are pretty well sorted out now too.
Again, no magic ... just common sense. And it still works!
There are many high 12 second/105 mph cars that are running 55# injectors and fighting driveabilty problems and unable to go faster (again, you aren't a typical case
... you have access to a programmable ROM, commented source code, WB O2, etc. etc. etc.). Those are usually the guys blowing headgaskets too... I'd contend it's more approach than the actual parts. Heck, some folks can break a box of hammers!
Until someone releases a 55# chip (and the ECM mod) for the stock turbo setup, they are better off having some 36# injectors and the proper chip to use them. They just will be happier, in my experience, since it's pretty much "plug 'n play".
They may not be able to go 11.teens, but they will be able to go high 11s with no real danger, if they use some common sense and monitor thing. The key isn't to go gonzo, but to sneak up on the tune until you max it out.
You want to play around, running static, that's fine, feel right at home, but NOT EVERYONE should play that game.
OK, so teach me ... I'm not trying to pick a fight ... teach me about what happens that will help me understand. Again, I've got a lot of time with these combinations (albeit, much less scientific than what you are doing) and I haven't seen the
typical car exhibiting any terrible behavior or losing performance. We're not talking about squeezing things to the thinnest margin ... common sense, like I said ... and again, we
DID use a Horiba WB O2 on the chassis dyno many moons ago and didn't see anything too dramatic.
Just tell me of one advantage of running the 36s.
Not that so and so did it, but one sound logic reason to use em.
Well, don't dismiss real world results (including my own) so quickly ... I'm not talking about "I read about it in Car Craft"... I'm saying touched it, saw it, wrenched on it, and got data from it experience. The bottom line is that it
is a combination that works. BTW, I've seen a lot of problems with over injectored (is that a word?) cars too ... it comes down to the skill of the calibrator/Translator users, IMHO.
Here's some reasons I'd say go with the 36# injectors in a combination that involves a TA49:
- Many chips available, due to the experience base in using them
- Proven to go high 11s with that kind of air flow
- Easy to find a chip for driveabilty
- No special black magic needed to run decent times at the track (high 11s/low 12s with traction, octane, and conservative boost)
- Up until recently, 55# injectors were VERY difficult to control in a stock turbo car
- Easy to resell when it's time to upgrade again
That said, I'm
NOT saying it's the ultimate injector or anything of the sort. I'm just pointing out that for many folks that aren't as into the bits and bytes of how all this works, they are effective and easier to see results from
out of the box.
Personally, I still like the 009s ... and haven't seen any of the "sky is falling" stuff that is being discussed. I agree that 55# injectors are a good idea for a 10 second ride (and when I get mine back together, that's probably what I'll be upgrading to), but I have a hard time believing that they are necessary for every combination.
And to reiterate ... I respect your hard work and data, and hope to learn more as you share it, but all I ask is that we also acknowledge that there is more than one way to skin a cat! You just gotta be careful how you hold the knife!
I went a littel different route with the chip but still managed 11.79 @ 116 mph before I upgraded to 50's.
