New Toyota Tundra ads really annoying me
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JDSfastGN
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mazdatech can talk down on GM all he wants, but my 99 new body style GMC Z71 outside has 225,000 very hard miles on it and it has not given me any problems. In normal (not tow haul) the tranny flares on the 2-3 a tad..... thats the only thing wrong with it. My dads 01 GMC has 300,000 on it as of the other day. Both are put to use towing, mudding and other truck things. The reason americans buy foreign products is because the general public is stupid and buys into the hype.
mazdatech78
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Your are right about Nissan and Mazda discounting their products, they dont have the same reliability records and quality of Toyota and Honda. Its some of the reason im glad im not at Mazda anymore. Too many bad designs and Ford parts. I never put more motors and transmissions in cars in my career then in my 1.5 years at the Mazda dealer.
JDSfastGN...Do you think I just pull info out of my a**. Im glad you and your family have good track records with GM vehicles, if more of their vehicles lasted longer with limited issues GM and the other American companies wouldnt be in such finanical turmoil. Since you want to bring up examples I will too. These are a couple of the American cars I checked out and serviced this week and you tell me if these types of repairs are acceptable for lower milage late model cars and trucks. With this im not including things like tires and brakes since all cars wear those out.
99 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD.. Both backing plate e-brake assemblies were rotted out, rear u-joint and carrier bearing, idler pulley, and blower motor resistor. This truck didnt look beat and has 78k miles.
02 Olds Alero 3.4L..Intake gaskets pouring coolant down the side of the block with only 58k miles. This repair is over $700 on a low milage car that seemed to be well maintained.
02 Chevy Trailblazer EXT 4WD.. Both lower ball joints, alternator, power steering pump, another blower motor resistor, and an HVAC control head which cost $402 just for the part. This truck only has 56k miles on it!
The total bill for just 3 GM vehicles fully repaired and ready for the used car lot was over $5500 dollars and it would have been alot more if I had fixed everything on the GMC. So for you out their that think I just have it out for GM, I dont. When they start building cars and trucks that dont need thousands of dollars of work with 50-75k miles on them I will start respecting them. And for the guy out there that said im an import snob. My daily driver is a 87 Dodge Shelby Charger, and last time I checked, Chrysler was still American owned in 1987.
James
JDSfastGN...Do you think I just pull info out of my a**. Im glad you and your family have good track records with GM vehicles, if more of their vehicles lasted longer with limited issues GM and the other American companies wouldnt be in such finanical turmoil. Since you want to bring up examples I will too. These are a couple of the American cars I checked out and serviced this week and you tell me if these types of repairs are acceptable for lower milage late model cars and trucks. With this im not including things like tires and brakes since all cars wear those out.
99 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD.. Both backing plate e-brake assemblies were rotted out, rear u-joint and carrier bearing, idler pulley, and blower motor resistor. This truck didnt look beat and has 78k miles.
02 Olds Alero 3.4L..Intake gaskets pouring coolant down the side of the block with only 58k miles. This repair is over $700 on a low milage car that seemed to be well maintained.
02 Chevy Trailblazer EXT 4WD.. Both lower ball joints, alternator, power steering pump, another blower motor resistor, and an HVAC control head which cost $402 just for the part. This truck only has 56k miles on it!
The total bill for just 3 GM vehicles fully repaired and ready for the used car lot was over $5500 dollars and it would have been alot more if I had fixed everything on the GMC. So for you out their that think I just have it out for GM, I dont. When they start building cars and trucks that dont need thousands of dollars of work with 50-75k miles on them I will start respecting them. And for the guy out there that said im an import snob. My daily driver is a 87 Dodge Shelby Charger, and last time I checked, Chrysler was still American owned in 1987.
James
Question for you mazdatech78-what are the two major reasons people trade in their vehickes? Answer-They have expendable income and can afford to replace a car every couple of years or they are getting rid of a lemon. Every manufacturer makes lemons here and there..EVERY single one. So you work at a dealership huh, well the higher mileage or older cars are pawned off to the wholesale guys and you probably never see them. You work on the non-Honda and Toyotas, do you think they have problems? Yes, they do. You live in an area that probably has rough winters and they treat the roads alot. What do you think that does to ball joints, e-brake assemblys{ especially if the customer never uses it} and anything else that is exposed? The Olds Alero was not a great car, I am not blind. Another factor is how well the vehicle was maintained, how hard it was driven or what and where it towed. Just because it looks nice doesn't mean crap. Like I said in an earlier post, everybody sees the world from a different perspective. As far as bringing up examples of problem cars that my former mechanic employees, friends and I have encountered, it would fill pages and pages about both foreign and domestic cars. It is a different world outside of the sheltered environment of a dealership. BTW..I do have a clue..
mazdatech78
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Well, actually I see every car that gets traded in. My used car managers like putting $3-$7k cars on the lot for the people with no credit so they can bury them in special financing. So they send every car to the my dept. for inspection to see if they can be repaired enough for the lot. And Ill give you that the roads and weather conditions in NE Ohio to beat up cars, but its been that way for years. You know it does snow in most northern states. They are going to continue to use salt on the roads. Maybe GM could start using better materials when they build their cars. There is no excuse for backing plates to rot out in 78k miles! And what about pwr steering pumps and alternators? The weather conditions arent making those go bad in 56k miles. For hard parts like these to be failing in that little of time is unacceptable! Now I know why Delphi went under. I dont think alternator technology has changed that much in the past 25 years, maybe its about time they got it right. Before I go ill give you one more example of GM quality problems. For some reason Honda bought Delphi alternators to put on 98-02 Accords with V6's. Every one fail between 60-70k miles. Why is that? When the Honda's with Denso alternators last well over 100k miles if not the life of the vehicle. Bottom line...Build better vehicles or the imports along with the unions are going to put you out of business!
BTW I know Aleros are junk, but GM put 3.1L and 3.4L in alot of their vehicles and every one over 50k miles needs intake gaskets. A $700+ repair is a big pill to swallow for most people on a car with that little of milage.
James
BTW I know Aleros are junk, but GM put 3.1L and 3.4L in alot of their vehicles and every one over 50k miles needs intake gaskets. A $700+ repair is a big pill to swallow for most people on a car with that little of milage.
James
The 3.1 and 3.4 liter motors were not bad, it was the Dex-coolant that deteriorated the gaskets for whatever reason and it also plagued many other GM models. My 3.8 Buick powered 98 Olds LSS had the same problem, but on the other hand I can't count how many Honda Civic head gaskets I have replaced because of a crumby gasket design or Accord valve jobs we did because the timing belt broke and doinked the valves before the specified replacement mileage. Anyway, I am out of this thread. The Tundra commercial is still misleading.
lets see here
my 06 Z71 330 hp truck gets 16.5 in town and gets 20 on the highway. is a great truck so far has 11k miles on it. Only time will tell if this truck will be as great as my last gm truck a 94 K2500 with over 300k on it. in 300k it had to have the rear end rebuilt. That was due to a severe off-roading abuse
I think the resaon for a 6 speed tranny is so they can gear the rear axle to a steep lower gear so it can get somewhat decent fuel mileage and also meet the EPA standards of less then 2k rpm @ highway speeds.
my 06 Z71 330 hp truck gets 16.5 in town and gets 20 on the highway. is a great truck so far has 11k miles on it. Only time will tell if this truck will be as great as my last gm truck a 94 K2500 with over 300k on it. in 300k it had to have the rear end rebuilt. That was due to a severe off-roading abuse
I think the resaon for a 6 speed tranny is so they can gear the rear axle to a steep lower gear so it can get somewhat decent fuel mileage and also meet the EPA standards of less then 2k rpm @ highway speeds.
lyonsd
Active Member
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Interesting thread. Lots of interesting opinions. I'll throw in mine.
The line between regional automakers (US, Japanese, European, etc) is blurring. In fact, it's really irrelevant. GM, Ford, Toyota, D-C, are multi-national corporations. They operate in global markets and anybody can buy their stock. Anyone of us can own shares of Toyota.
The auto industry itself is not a very profitable industry these day. The rivalry is intense, the consumers are more educated and have better means to make informed decisions, which reduces the automaker's profitability, suppliers have consolidated which has given them more negotiating power. And unions certainly aren't helping anything.
Another thing is differentiation. Toyota's Tundra differentiates itself by offering a truck with the highest horsepower and torque in a gasoline engine available for a truck that size. Other makers tried to differentiate their products with supercharges, awd, etc. Take the Grand National - it was pretty much a success because of differentiation. And even today it holds its value well.
So take a look at what we have to choose from in half ton trucks now...
Chevy/GMC 1500 C/K
Ford F150
Dodge Ram
Nissan Titan
Toyota Tundra
Which one is different?
Which is is most different?
Where trucks compete and try to differentiate themselves is in power/torque ratings and load capacity. Isn't eveything else pretty much the same (bed length, leather interior, CD/DVD navigation, etc...)?
If I'm not mistaken, Toyota has all the others beat in terms of differentiation.
I am not brand loyal. I'm not region loyal either. I buy what I like. Back in '88 I bought a Mustang GT because it was "bang-for-the-buck" king. I didn't really like the IROCs back then. A GN was too expensive for me back then. A Corvette was out of the question.
Now my priorities have changed. I'm not looking for "bang-for-the-buck". Now I have a family. Performance is still important, but it's got to be practical. Our family car is a '03 Maxima. It's the first "Japanese" car I've ever owned. It's a 4-door, has decent mileage, and decent performance. In fact, there are no naturally-aspirated Fords, GMs, Chryslers with 6-cylinders that can match the Maxima's performance. It's not much slower than my Mustang was when it was bone stock, or my GN for that matter. In fact, on the highway, at highway speeds from a roll, that Maxima might even pull a stock 5.0 or a stock (non-tweaked) GN.
Why doesn't Ford or GM offer a car with a naturally aspirated 6-cylinder with that kind of performance?
Ford and GM need to change the way they do business unless they want Toyota becoming number 1 (Toyota is number 2 now by supassing Ford recently). This should have been a wake-up call for Ford. What are they offering in a vehicle that isn't considered a commodity? Nothing they have appeals to me. GM is in pretty much the same boat. Although the Impala SS is kind of neat (despite it being wrong wheel drive). The GTO was kind of cool, but forget trunk space and cargo capacity. Hopefully the new Pontiac G8 will be better. Are Ford and GM going to continue down the path of producing lackluster, generic cars and sit back and watch as Toyota becomes the world's number 1 auto maker? Hell, I'd buy a Camry before I'd buy any Ford car. 270 hp naturally aspirated V6, fuel efficiency, passenger and cargo space too. The only GM car I'd rather have is the Impala SS, or Pontiac G8.
What about trucks? I think the new Tundra kicks ass and it would probably be my first choice. Followed by GMC, Chevy, Nissan, Ford and Dodge.
As far as quality goes, Ford, GM and Chrysler started addressing those issues when they realized Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Mazda were kicking their asses in that area. Quality has improved greatly in the past 20 years. But statistics show that on average, Toyota, Nissan, Honda are still ahead in quality, but not by much.
The line between regional automakers (US, Japanese, European, etc) is blurring. In fact, it's really irrelevant. GM, Ford, Toyota, D-C, are multi-national corporations. They operate in global markets and anybody can buy their stock. Anyone of us can own shares of Toyota.
The auto industry itself is not a very profitable industry these day. The rivalry is intense, the consumers are more educated and have better means to make informed decisions, which reduces the automaker's profitability, suppliers have consolidated which has given them more negotiating power. And unions certainly aren't helping anything.
Another thing is differentiation. Toyota's Tundra differentiates itself by offering a truck with the highest horsepower and torque in a gasoline engine available for a truck that size. Other makers tried to differentiate their products with supercharges, awd, etc. Take the Grand National - it was pretty much a success because of differentiation. And even today it holds its value well.
So take a look at what we have to choose from in half ton trucks now...
Chevy/GMC 1500 C/K
Ford F150
Dodge Ram
Nissan Titan
Toyota Tundra
Which one is different?
Which is is most different?
Where trucks compete and try to differentiate themselves is in power/torque ratings and load capacity. Isn't eveything else pretty much the same (bed length, leather interior, CD/DVD navigation, etc...)?
If I'm not mistaken, Toyota has all the others beat in terms of differentiation.
I am not brand loyal. I'm not region loyal either. I buy what I like. Back in '88 I bought a Mustang GT because it was "bang-for-the-buck" king. I didn't really like the IROCs back then. A GN was too expensive for me back then. A Corvette was out of the question.
Now my priorities have changed. I'm not looking for "bang-for-the-buck". Now I have a family. Performance is still important, but it's got to be practical. Our family car is a '03 Maxima. It's the first "Japanese" car I've ever owned. It's a 4-door, has decent mileage, and decent performance. In fact, there are no naturally-aspirated Fords, GMs, Chryslers with 6-cylinders that can match the Maxima's performance. It's not much slower than my Mustang was when it was bone stock, or my GN for that matter. In fact, on the highway, at highway speeds from a roll, that Maxima might even pull a stock 5.0 or a stock (non-tweaked) GN.
Why doesn't Ford or GM offer a car with a naturally aspirated 6-cylinder with that kind of performance?
Ford and GM need to change the way they do business unless they want Toyota becoming number 1 (Toyota is number 2 now by supassing Ford recently). This should have been a wake-up call for Ford. What are they offering in a vehicle that isn't considered a commodity? Nothing they have appeals to me. GM is in pretty much the same boat. Although the Impala SS is kind of neat (despite it being wrong wheel drive). The GTO was kind of cool, but forget trunk space and cargo capacity. Hopefully the new Pontiac G8 will be better. Are Ford and GM going to continue down the path of producing lackluster, generic cars and sit back and watch as Toyota becomes the world's number 1 auto maker? Hell, I'd buy a Camry before I'd buy any Ford car. 270 hp naturally aspirated V6, fuel efficiency, passenger and cargo space too. The only GM car I'd rather have is the Impala SS, or Pontiac G8.
What about trucks? I think the new Tundra kicks ass and it would probably be my first choice. Followed by GMC, Chevy, Nissan, Ford and Dodge.
As far as quality goes, Ford, GM and Chrysler started addressing those issues when they realized Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Mazda were kicking their asses in that area. Quality has improved greatly in the past 20 years. But statistics show that on average, Toyota, Nissan, Honda are still ahead in quality, but not by much.
Baloney. A new 07 tundra 4x4 extracab is 34k sticker. After the new model frenzy dies down you will probaby be able to pick this up for for 2-3k less. Ford and chevy trucks similarly equipped cost either the same or slightly more. The ford engine is pathetic, and you cant get the chevy engine without the stupid fuel management thingy.
As for chevy and ford knocking 10K off sitcker, let me know what dealerships you're shopping at.
TexasT
Texas, Where are you from
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They are the ones spouting that it can tow. I'm just putting up. Just an invitation.
Not a diesel or a dually. K2500 comes equipped like that. The mileage might not be the best but I'm willing to live with it.
JDSfastGN
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the domestics are not in trouble, at all......... the tundra boast some nice power numbers, and is a good truck ( i don't care for the new front end) but the truck market is filled with brand loyal folks that will not buy a Toyota. Thats the bottom line. In the end it will only make the domestics meet and beat its power levels making them all that more appealing.
Ummm, read the news - GM, DCX and Ford are losing Billions - DCX is for sale, Ford is mortgaged to the hilt and GM is a shadow of its former self. Every Toyota or Nissan truck sold is 10-17k worth of profit out of the big 2 1/2.
JDSfastGN
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yeah and thats all because of trucks huh?......yeah
No, it is from poor labor contracts, poor products, poor quality, etc. Full sized trucks/SUV's are the last segment that the Detroit 3 excel in.
Don't get me wrong, I love American cars and own two of them - the Detroit 3 have a long way to go...
mazdatech78
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JDSfastGN...Brand loyalty will keep the domestic trucks selling but for the car and SUV market its not. Everyday, people are trading in there American cars for foreign cars. Just in my family alone my mom, dad and cousin have gotten rid of their American cars for Toyota products in the past 9 months. An 06 Scion xB, a 04 4Runner Ltd., and a 06 4Runner SR5 respectively. The age range is 36-50 years old. None of them have ever owned a foreign car in their lives. And they didnt buy them because I pushed them that way either. I suggested they go either Honda or Toyota but also told them to shop around and buy what they like even if it was American. All 3 came home with Toyotas. When people that have been driving American cars for 20-30 years are abandoning domestic products and swear they will never go back after driving their Japanese cars, I think the big 3 are in trouble.
James
James
JDSfastGN
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thats all well and good but look at the sales, the GM products are not that far off in sales if not ahead in some cases. The problems with the big 3 is more upper management and union problems. Their products are fine and will continue to get better. GM products and even other American brands are not on a lower level of refinement in most cases. They were in the past, and the stigma has stayed with them and continues to hurt them. I am not even that biased towards GM, my family drives GM, but i have nothing against most foreign cars. My friend has a 06 tundra, its a nice truck with plenty of power. I am far less biased than u may be thinking. I get tired of people playing the doom and gloom crap for GM when it comes to the vehicles on the market. They are not the problem.
dan lephart
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Frame??? What Frame!!!
Weakest POS frame in the industry. Yes, I bent one of TOYotas frames to the point the only way to make it rebound was to bend the other corner. This was a stripped frame front mounted on a pylon and one post on the rear LH end. Amazing to do. And these uninformed that buy them would freak if they only knew. TOYota=Quality - NO! The Ford, Dodge & Gm frames showed little deflection, much less than bending and twisting as did the pop riveted TOYota frame demonstrated. Go to www.ford.com search for and view "the truth about trucks". What an eye opener. To me it is not just a buy American issue but why buy an unsafe vehicle (demonstrated by TOYotas outrageous performance on the aligator strips). Americans wake up the TOYota icon has dropped the ball. They are counting on past reputation to blind the consumer and deliver inferior, cheap product...
Weakest POS frame in the industry. Yes, I bent one of TOYotas frames to the point the only way to make it rebound was to bend the other corner. This was a stripped frame front mounted on a pylon and one post on the rear LH end. Amazing to do. And these uninformed that buy them would freak if they only knew. TOYota=Quality - NO! The Ford, Dodge & Gm frames showed little deflection, much less than bending and twisting as did the pop riveted TOYota frame demonstrated. Go to www.ford.com search for and view "the truth about trucks". What an eye opener. To me it is not just a buy American issue but why buy an unsafe vehicle (demonstrated by TOYotas outrageous performance on the aligator strips). Americans wake up the TOYota icon has dropped the ball. They are counting on past reputation to blind the consumer and deliver inferior, cheap product... Similar threads
