I agree on the reproduction of the power plates, that's just wrong, but GM isn't going to start making power 6 logo T shirts for $15 bucks either. It would be different if GM was competition, but they aren't! These small guys that they have shut down were our only ticket to some truely nice stuff that all the other car nuts have accest to. Also, to be licensed by GM means not carring anything bashing another car or manufacturer. No more "We brake for Vettes" etc. Kind of crazy if you ask me. Everything has to be P.C..
No more turbo logo's period!
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b4black
Well-Known Member
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- Messages
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It would be nice if we could some FACTS about this instead of hearsay, rumors, and opinions.
The licensing stuff started when vendors (not our TR vendors) started selling inferior (sometimes dangerous) mechanical and body parts. Remember the "keep your GM car all GM" campaign? It rolled over into everything.
If you have to have a license, then you have to have a license. We like the law when it helps us, but then hate the same law when it hurts us. [Insert something about eating cake here.]
The licensing stuff started when vendors (not our TR vendors) started selling inferior (sometimes dangerous) mechanical and body parts. Remember the "keep your GM car all GM" campaign? It rolled over into everything.
If you have to have a license, then you have to have a license. We like the law when it helps us, but then hate the same law when it hurts us. [Insert something about eating cake here.]
GMACHINE...I agree it sucks, but they are taking money out of GM's pockets. It devalues the licensing value, especially then to the poor sap that paid for it, and no matter which way you look at it, it was still stealing. You can buy a stolen Rolex for a grand, or you can buy a legit one for 5 grand.
blackbuick87
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 3,205
As was said in Alan's post, CAR does not have EXCLUSIVE rights to these logos. Any vendor can apply for them and pay GM the appropriate licensing fees. Any one selling a shirt with a Chevy bow tie or a Ford oval has to do the same thing. The difference is that since we are such a small group GM didnt notice and none of the vendors were getting the proper licensing. Well now they have to pay like everyone else, and it is going to get passed on to us. So what? Its the way it should have been since the beginning, the difference is we were spoiled by lower prices in the beginning.
This has been blown WAY out of proportion through rumor, a little ignorance, and plain old bad information. Oh yeah also by one idiot from a US territory with a big mouth and a fake name
This has been blown WAY out of proportion through rumor, a little ignorance, and plain old bad information. Oh yeah also by one idiot from a US territory with a big mouth and a fake name
whitehot84
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2001
- Messages
- 6,097
Can anyone recall what the last item GM sold with a power 6 logo on it was?
TwoLaneBlackTop
About done
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 338
Car Motorsports has made my list of vendors I WILL AVOID BUISNESS WITH WHEN POSIBLE
1. BGC
2. CAS
3. Car Motorsports
Hope I don't have to add any other vendor soon.
1. BGC
2. CAS
3. Car Motorsports
Hope I don't have to add any other vendor soon.
turbojimmy
Supporting Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
- Messages
- 5,560
I found out by accident last week, but really didn't think anything of it until I saw this post. I wanted to spruce up the faded interior in my car (fargin t-tops) so I went to the JAX site. It was there I saw that you can no longer get the Power 6 logo on the headrests. I want the leather he sells, but I want the power 6 on the headrests so I e-mailed Paul. He replied just yesterday and said to check back later - he hopes to get the appropriate licensing soon. Says he's "still trying to get approval from GM". I'm not sure if that means he hasn't ponied up the dough, or if there's really some negotiation involved.
Either way, he has a good reputation as far as I can tell. I can wait 'til he sorts it out. The compromise is a castrated version of the logo - looks silly IMO.
Jim
Either way, he has a good reputation as far as I can tell. I can wait 'til he sorts it out. The compromise is a castrated version of the logo - looks silly IMO.
Jim
b4black
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 3,773
Umm, maybe all the Grand Nationals emblems that are still available from the dealership.
blackbuick87
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 3,205
You are missing the point. GM is the one causing the difficulties, NOT CAR Motorsports. Use your head for a second, why should anyone and their brother be able to use GM trademarks at will on whatever they want? If you invented a product and someone started making Tshirts and thongs with your logo, you would do something about it also
GM isn't stopping anyone from making products w/ their logos, they are stopping people from selling products and making money with their logos. How come nobody said anything when GM invaded ebay years back and made people remove auctions for using the logo? People were selling photocopied GM manuals. I didn't have a problem with people stealing it/using it if GM doesn't, but i'm certainly not gonna bitch about it if they tell them they have to stop.
Just one more reason why I won't buy another GM vehicle. Back in the late 80's I thought the grand nationals had more in common with ricers than other cars,except the Mustang. Why,you ask. Well I remember going to lots of car shows that GM performance parts had a booth. I would stand around and look at all the Chebby v8 stuff. Then when I was tired of looking at stuff just for Chebbies I ask one of the GM reps. Where is your buick v6 performance stuff,got anything for Olds, Pontiac, something from GM. This looks like a Cebby performance NOT GM. You've all met people that say it's a v6 not a v8 so they don't really look at it. Kinda what some people on this board do to sub compact perfomance cars.
I just wonder if Car motorsports is going to produce anything for the community. I visited their website and did'nt find much. IF YOUR GOING TO LOCK OTHER VENDORS OUT...GET ON THE GO AND START SUPPLYING MERCHANDISE.
And you wonder why some people are anti CHEBBY! GM in my opinion has only supported the CHEBBY v8 crowd.
I just wonder if Car motorsports is going to produce anything for the community. I visited their website and did'nt find much. IF YOUR GOING TO LOCK OTHER VENDORS OUT...GET ON THE GO AND START SUPPLYING MERCHANDISE.
And you wonder why some people are anti CHEBBY! GM in my opinion has only supported the CHEBBY v8 crowd.
Wait there's more................ Some vendors for this community have been less than reputable,but the majority have done a great job for us. I'm just amazed how big this has got for this small little insignificant crowd. NO THANKS TO GM!! That's just my opinion.
GM has left us behind. If you agree with GM be sure to spend 250 on your next accumulator instead of 80 from Kirbans. GM might be causing the problem, but Car Motorsports was the spark. I will simply boycott them, everyone else can do what the want, they always do anyways!
blackbuick87
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 3,205
You guys are REALLY kidding yourselves if you think Ford and Dodge are any different, and would allow anyone to use their logos without expressed written consent.
I am done here, the thickheadedness is wearing me down
I am done here, the thickheadedness is wearing me down
Alan Faircloth
New Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2002
- Messages
- 159
Once Again......
You know, this is getting to be a tiresome routine. I keep having to respond again and again and again to judgmental non-fact based allegations from idiots who can't or don't read prior posts and love to make anonymous posts hiding behind their usernames. The issue with the leather seats was not about licensing but the RIGHT to the seat covers. I contacted and had Katzkin specifically make our leather seat covers. After they saw them at the Nats a few years ago, Jax thought he would sell these covers also. Well, this was in breach of the exclusive deal I had with Katzkin. Why exclusive? Because I PAID all of the development costs. If Jax wants to share in that cost and sell the covers, I'm all ears. Its no different than Jason Cramer with his Power Plate, except that I acted to PROTECT what I had developed. Apparently, he has not and now someone has threatened to copy it. My actions were simply GOOD BUSINESS! Everyone defended him and condemned someone copying his product but didn't have a problem with Jax copying one of my products? This seems rather hypocritical and inconsistent and I'd love to hear the explanation why its different. Jax now makes their own seat covers. FINE! I have no problem with that even if some of you do. They just can't sell the one's I had made by Katzkin without being a part of the development of those covers which involved a cost.
As for the logos on the headrest, take it up with GM. Katzkin is the one licensed to use those logos on those headrests. Maybe it was them that complained about Jax (if anyone really did). People must think I have lots of time to spend finding out what people sell and then calling the GM Hotline to report them. Far from it. I am constantly busy answering questions and filling orders and developing new products (such as Seat Cushion Bottoms that few people seem to want) and working and getting ready for our new baby boy. Although a Buick Owner, which is where my dedication is, the F-body owners and GTP Pontiac owners are the biggest part of our business. Turbo owners account for the absolute LEAST amount of business we do. Every year there are fewer and fewer on the road. Ask Kirban about the market and see what he has to say about it. By not doing business with us, people are missing out on some incredible things for their cars, such as our embroidered car covers with a lifetime warranty, but that's their decision. So, I don't spend my time telling on other Buick vendors and boycotting us won't be a major impact to our business. Jason Debler told me that TB.com was in the soup with GM a long time ago, before I was ever on the scene, but I guess people will attribute that to me also. He also said something about this coming up at the z28camaro website which I have not visited or registered or post on (no time). And if I was out reporting the Buick vendors, why have only a few and not all received these "mystery letters" that I have yet to see confirmed by a vendor receiving them. If I was going to do this, I'd do it to every single one of the unlicensed vendors.....not some or 3 or a few or whatever the number supposedly is.
Bottom line is that there is a lot of posting by people who are not involved directly in anything to do with this. Yet STILL THEY POST! Thus, their information is clearly not first hand and probably neither accurate nor factual. I have heard GM is cracking down on unlicensed vendors, but they ALWAYS do this during recessionary times so why the surprise? When the cars aren't selling they look for other sources of revenue........which would be licensed merchandise. As far as finding vendors, hell, they are all over this board and the internet. A quick search on google and you will find them. If you sell unlicensed stuff and do it on the internet for all to see, you run the risk of being caught. Its not a difficult concept. BTW, I saw some of these allegedly reported vendors selling at the Nats. So, either they didn't get letters or ignored them.
I don't have the time to engage in the petty activity of reporting other Buick vendors. Hell, for all I know, they are licensed (I don't have a list of licensees). I wouldn't sell unlicensed products and wouldn't think that others would either.....its a very dumb risk to take. Should they be licensed? Sure, if they are selling stuff with trademarked GM logos. Forget about GM abandoning you guys or other justifications. The fact is GM owns certain logos that can't be used without approval and payment of royalties. But if a vendor wants to take the risk of selling unlicensed product, that's their decision and they shouldn't cry when they get found out. I don't like looking over my shoulder for the law, so we did things the right way and applied for licensing, paid our 5 figure upfront money, and pay our quarterly royalties. Sure, I have some theories about how GM might have found out about unlicensed vendors, but I have no confirmation of this so I'm not going to do like others and just start spouting off conspiracy theories and suspicions and propaganda.
Don't want to do business with CAR Motorsports? I'm sorry you feel that way because we have some really great stuff but its your choice. However, don't start laying things at our door that we didn't create or do. And putting us on a list with CAS and BGC is quite demeaning. I don't know of anyone who has complained that we have engaged in conduct anything like alleged of those 2 vendors. Of course, I'm surprised that this hasn't happened and it may be the very next post I read......probably by Drew Sharpe of the Cayman Islands except that I've never done business with him and, according to him, never will, so maybe I won't see that post from him or I'll know its a lie. Of course, he prefers to make physical threats against a person and their family by PM so a post may be expecting too much.
BTW, thanks to those who have kept an open mind about these type of sour grape posts and have posted about their experiences with us. There's only one vendor I've spoken to my GM contact about and he makes something for the GS Skylark cars, NOT turbo cars. And it wasn't about turning him in, it was about determining the circumstances under which a part had to be licensed as a reproduction part. His name (and that of his company) was not even named during the conversation. And NO I do not OWN the Power 6 or any other Buick logo. I simply rent them from GM.
This is my only post here, but I'm sure that another thread will get started soon enough. Maybe I can just post the link to this one and say see........<link>. I've said my piece so now the rest of you can have this discussion and carry it where you want it. I agree, the thickheadedness is wearing me down too.
Alan
You know, this is getting to be a tiresome routine. I keep having to respond again and again and again to judgmental non-fact based allegations from idiots who can't or don't read prior posts and love to make anonymous posts hiding behind their usernames. The issue with the leather seats was not about licensing but the RIGHT to the seat covers. I contacted and had Katzkin specifically make our leather seat covers. After they saw them at the Nats a few years ago, Jax thought he would sell these covers also. Well, this was in breach of the exclusive deal I had with Katzkin. Why exclusive? Because I PAID all of the development costs. If Jax wants to share in that cost and sell the covers, I'm all ears. Its no different than Jason Cramer with his Power Plate, except that I acted to PROTECT what I had developed. Apparently, he has not and now someone has threatened to copy it. My actions were simply GOOD BUSINESS! Everyone defended him and condemned someone copying his product but didn't have a problem with Jax copying one of my products? This seems rather hypocritical and inconsistent and I'd love to hear the explanation why its different. Jax now makes their own seat covers. FINE! I have no problem with that even if some of you do. They just can't sell the one's I had made by Katzkin without being a part of the development of those covers which involved a cost.
As for the logos on the headrest, take it up with GM. Katzkin is the one licensed to use those logos on those headrests. Maybe it was them that complained about Jax (if anyone really did). People must think I have lots of time to spend finding out what people sell and then calling the GM Hotline to report them. Far from it. I am constantly busy answering questions and filling orders and developing new products (such as Seat Cushion Bottoms that few people seem to want) and working and getting ready for our new baby boy. Although a Buick Owner, which is where my dedication is, the F-body owners and GTP Pontiac owners are the biggest part of our business. Turbo owners account for the absolute LEAST amount of business we do. Every year there are fewer and fewer on the road. Ask Kirban about the market and see what he has to say about it. By not doing business with us, people are missing out on some incredible things for their cars, such as our embroidered car covers with a lifetime warranty, but that's their decision. So, I don't spend my time telling on other Buick vendors and boycotting us won't be a major impact to our business. Jason Debler told me that TB.com was in the soup with GM a long time ago, before I was ever on the scene, but I guess people will attribute that to me also. He also said something about this coming up at the z28camaro website which I have not visited or registered or post on (no time). And if I was out reporting the Buick vendors, why have only a few and not all received these "mystery letters" that I have yet to see confirmed by a vendor receiving them. If I was going to do this, I'd do it to every single one of the unlicensed vendors.....not some or 3 or a few or whatever the number supposedly is.
Bottom line is that there is a lot of posting by people who are not involved directly in anything to do with this. Yet STILL THEY POST! Thus, their information is clearly not first hand and probably neither accurate nor factual. I have heard GM is cracking down on unlicensed vendors, but they ALWAYS do this during recessionary times so why the surprise? When the cars aren't selling they look for other sources of revenue........which would be licensed merchandise. As far as finding vendors, hell, they are all over this board and the internet. A quick search on google and you will find them. If you sell unlicensed stuff and do it on the internet for all to see, you run the risk of being caught. Its not a difficult concept. BTW, I saw some of these allegedly reported vendors selling at the Nats. So, either they didn't get letters or ignored them.
I don't have the time to engage in the petty activity of reporting other Buick vendors. Hell, for all I know, they are licensed (I don't have a list of licensees). I wouldn't sell unlicensed products and wouldn't think that others would either.....its a very dumb risk to take. Should they be licensed? Sure, if they are selling stuff with trademarked GM logos. Forget about GM abandoning you guys or other justifications. The fact is GM owns certain logos that can't be used without approval and payment of royalties. But if a vendor wants to take the risk of selling unlicensed product, that's their decision and they shouldn't cry when they get found out. I don't like looking over my shoulder for the law, so we did things the right way and applied for licensing, paid our 5 figure upfront money, and pay our quarterly royalties. Sure, I have some theories about how GM might have found out about unlicensed vendors, but I have no confirmation of this so I'm not going to do like others and just start spouting off conspiracy theories and suspicions and propaganda.
Don't want to do business with CAR Motorsports? I'm sorry you feel that way because we have some really great stuff but its your choice. However, don't start laying things at our door that we didn't create or do. And putting us on a list with CAS and BGC is quite demeaning. I don't know of anyone who has complained that we have engaged in conduct anything like alleged of those 2 vendors. Of course, I'm surprised that this hasn't happened and it may be the very next post I read......probably by Drew Sharpe of the Cayman Islands except that I've never done business with him and, according to him, never will, so maybe I won't see that post from him or I'll know its a lie. Of course, he prefers to make physical threats against a person and their family by PM so a post may be expecting too much.
BTW, thanks to those who have kept an open mind about these type of sour grape posts and have posted about their experiences with us. There's only one vendor I've spoken to my GM contact about and he makes something for the GS Skylark cars, NOT turbo cars. And it wasn't about turning him in, it was about determining the circumstances under which a part had to be licensed as a reproduction part. His name (and that of his company) was not even named during the conversation. And NO I do not OWN the Power 6 or any other Buick logo. I simply rent them from GM.
This is my only post here, but I'm sure that another thread will get started soon enough. Maybe I can just post the link to this one and say see........<link>. I've said my piece so now the rest of you can have this discussion and carry it where you want it. I agree, the thickheadedness is wearing me down too.
Alan
