ok, wtf....:mad:
- Thread starter ChrisF
- Start date
KL Mallender
Certified Dumb****
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2007
I have used the tensioner from the 3800 series engines(series I anyway) with good results, made from different material and length compared to original LC2, good luck.
Kevin.
Kevin.
If your engine is running and you unplug the cam sensor you will go into batch fire mode.
If it's running and your cam sensor starts sending out wrong data, all hell will break loose.
Judging by that cam gear I'd guess that your cam timing ended up wrong when the pump caused the cam sensor to start jumping teeth.
Does the cam sensor gear look like the cam gear?
It sucks that you have to do a cam swap (and all the crap that goes along with it to do it right) for something that should have been avoided.
If it's running and your cam sensor starts sending out wrong data, all hell will break loose.
Judging by that cam gear I'd guess that your cam timing ended up wrong when the pump caused the cam sensor to start jumping teeth.
Does the cam sensor gear look like the cam gear?
It sucks that you have to do a cam swap (and all the crap that goes along with it to do it right) for something that should have been avoided.
Yeah, cam sensor gear is shot. I am going to use a bronze 455 gear (provided its the same, like it appears to be) so that all wear is on that gear instead of both. It's a lot easier to change that bronze gear than it is to do a cam and lifters. Like I said before, been down this road with a big Buick motor.
Based on the filth and the shot front seal, it had to come apart anyway. The cost and time suck, but I get a better (more hp I hope) cam, and freshen up and clean up the whole front and top. Interstingly enough, the inside of the motor is really clean, which helps.
Based on the filth and the shot front seal, it had to come apart anyway. The cost and time suck, but I get a better (more hp I hope) cam, and freshen up and clean up the whole front and top. Interstingly enough, the inside of the motor is really clean, which helps.
Update! Everyone chime in!
Okay guys, cleaned the heck out of everything! No more rustproofing by Mobil 1 and Buick!
To all the high volume - High pressure oil pump guys:
It eats parts. Period. Do not do this unless you are milking a tired motor for more miles, or have made several other oiling system mods to accommodate it. It puts way too much load on the cam gear and cam sensor gear and housing, especially when the oil is cold. If you have a healthy bottom end, it is completely unnecessary. It not only wiped out my cam gear on an otherwise perfectly healthy cam, but also wiped out the cam sensor. Not just the gear, but it had so much side load on the sensor shaft the bottom bushing was also spinning in the housing! I can't believe it ran at all.
** I know a great carb - distributor guy locally who specializes in old Buicks *
He used to do all of my 455 work - carbs and distributors were always "set it and forget it" from mild to race. Thank you, Carmen!
He rebuilt and rebushed the sensor so it is better than new, and also re-spec'd the oil pump and timing cover to be better than factory new.
I got the new cam (204-214 @ .050, 112 deg lsa) installed, cleaned everything up, and it all looks great. I put the timing chain and gears on, and was about to install the oil slinger, but I have a few questions:
1) There is a steel washer with the oil slinger, does it go beteeen the slinger and the balancer, or between the slinger and the crank gear? Despite a million pics, I missed it.
2) The slinger itself appears to have some runout to the outer edge - and it seems intentional - there does not appear to be any physical damage to it - but if it were spinning the outer edge of it would wander in and out relative to the engine itself - almost as if it were slinging oil in a wider, larger pattern? Is this intentional or is it warped or bent?
3) I looked up the procedure for setting the cam sensor on GN Type.org and regarding marking the balancer at 1.45" and so forth - If I am understanding this properly, it is to get the cam sensor to 20 BTDC - couldn't the same be accomplished using the timing marks on the balancer and the plastic timing cover marker? The plastic degree indicator goes to 20 degrees in 4 degree increments and curious enough has a seperate mark at 15 degrees I think. There has to be some reason they did this.
4) Lastly, I have ordered some ZDDP and some other stuff from Kirban's (he rocks) - what is the proper cam break-in procedure?
Opinions??
Thanks again guys! Sorry to be long winded, but it's better than you guys having to ask me more questions just to answer my questions!!
Okay guys, cleaned the heck out of everything! No more rustproofing by Mobil 1 and Buick!
To all the high volume - High pressure oil pump guys:
It eats parts. Period. Do not do this unless you are milking a tired motor for more miles, or have made several other oiling system mods to accommodate it. It puts way too much load on the cam gear and cam sensor gear and housing, especially when the oil is cold. If you have a healthy bottom end, it is completely unnecessary. It not only wiped out my cam gear on an otherwise perfectly healthy cam, but also wiped out the cam sensor. Not just the gear, but it had so much side load on the sensor shaft the bottom bushing was also spinning in the housing!
I can't believe it ran at all. ** I know a great carb - distributor guy locally who specializes in old Buicks *
He used to do all of my 455 work - carbs and distributors were always "set it and forget it" from mild to race. Thank you, Carmen!
He rebuilt and rebushed the sensor so it is better than new, and also re-spec'd the oil pump and timing cover to be better than factory new.
I got the new cam (204-214 @ .050, 112 deg lsa) installed, cleaned everything up, and it all looks great. I put the timing chain and gears on, and was about to install the oil slinger, but I have a few questions:
1) There is a steel washer with the oil slinger, does it go beteeen the slinger and the balancer, or between the slinger and the crank gear? Despite a million pics, I missed it.
2) The slinger itself appears to have some runout to the outer edge - and it seems intentional - there does not appear to be any physical damage to it - but if it were spinning the outer edge of it would wander in and out relative to the engine itself - almost as if it were slinging oil in a wider, larger pattern? Is this intentional or is it warped or bent?
3) I looked up the procedure for setting the cam sensor on GN Type.org and regarding marking the balancer at 1.45" and so forth - If I am understanding this properly, it is to get the cam sensor to 20 BTDC - couldn't the same be accomplished using the timing marks on the balancer and the plastic timing cover marker? The plastic degree indicator goes to 20 degrees in 4 degree increments and curious enough has a seperate mark at 15 degrees I think. There has to be some reason they did this.
4) Lastly, I have ordered some ZDDP and some other stuff from Kirban's (he rocks) - what is the proper cam break-in procedure?
Opinions??
Thanks again guys! Sorry to be long winded, but it's better than you guys having to ask me more questions just to answer my questions!!
pmoore4321
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2010
pmoore4321
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2010
In the pic above, did you remove the front seal retaining ring or was it hanging on the crankshaft when you pulled the cover? I am thinking whoever installed the timing gear probably replaced the seal, but did not stake the ring to the timing cover.
3.8L V-8 eater
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
I just put on my front cover and do not recall the washer either only the oil slinger... That was the 1st thing I noticed on the picture he posted and I was wondering the same thing you were!!! I see on the diagram it does not show one so wondering where that came from
3) I looked up the procedure for setting the cam sensor on GN Type.org and regarding marking the balancer at 1.45" and so forth - If I am understanding this properly, it is to get the cam sensor to 20 BTDC - couldn't the same be accomplished using the timing marks on the balancer and the plastic timing cover marker? The plastic degree indicator goes to 20 degrees in 4 degree increments and curious enough has a seperate mark at 15 degrees I think. There has to be some reason they did this.
Opinions??
Thanks again guys! Sorry to be long winded, but it's better than you guys having to ask me more questions just to answer my questions!!
No, actually you put the tape to the left (when standing in front of the engine looking rearward) of the "notch" in the balancer. The 1.45" piece of tape will then set things at 25° ATDC, NOT BTDC.
Just a Six??
OK! Who Farted??
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
Out of 5 Factory engines Only One had the washer on the slinger & others have mentioned they had one. I guess GM had a reason on some of them?? I know Grumpy Dan said he had one on an engine.
pmoore4321
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2010
I just put on my front cover and do not recall the washer either only the oil slinger... That was the 1st thing I noticed on the picture he posted and I was wondering the same thing you were!!! I see on the diagram it does not show one so wondering where that came from
It might explain the "Exxon Valdez" spill in the engine bay. I would think that seal retainer ring would stay in the cover even without being staked. It fits pretty tight. I don't see how it could pop out on its own.
Is it me?
The cam sensor has nothing to do with cam timing. It is INJECTOR timing.
The sensor/cam gear wore out, shredded, the engine lost the ability to fire the injectors when it was supposed to. Goes into batch fire, shut it of and then it will not restart.
The cam sensor has nothing to do with cam timing. It is INJECTOR timing.
The sensor/cam gear wore out, shredded, the engine lost the ability to fire the injectors when it was supposed to. Goes into batch fire, shut it of and then it will not restart.
3.8L V-8 eater
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
Looks like it was a steal housing for the rope seal that seats in the front cover as you mentioned. Just never seen one like that.
turboc87gn
Darkside in Detroit
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2008
...
Thanks guys! I am guessing the steel washer is to set the depth of the balancer for perfect belt alignment? It's definitely something factory.
I had Carmen install a new neoprene seal in the front cover when he rebuilt the oil pump.
As for the tape on the balancer, the more I thought of it ATDC made sense...duh...lol
Any word on cam break in procedure?
I had Carmen install a new neoprene seal in the front cover when he rebuilt the oil pump.
As for the tape on the balancer, the more I thought of it ATDC made sense...duh...lol
Any word on cam break in procedure?
A second washer is more likely for crank trigger clearance than belt alignment.
On the cam break in, that's a crap shoot. If you're going flat tappet, put the weakest springs in you can find, jug of EOS, and run the engine for at least 20 minutes at elevated RPM's.
With todays lifters, oil and cam blanks it's really a crap shoot and luck plays a factor.
If you went roller, don't sweat it, there is no break in.
On the cam break in, that's a crap shoot. If you're going flat tappet, put the weakest springs in you can find, jug of EOS, and run the engine for at least 20 minutes at elevated RPM's.
With todays lifters, oil and cam blanks it's really a crap shoot and luck plays a factor.
If you went roller, don't sweat it, there is no break in.
crusacargen
Member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2008
ONE question did you put on an aftermarket timing cover? years ago i put one made everthing offset crapped the cam gear
