Performance mods - what order?

[87-WE2]

Newb here.

See my current mods below in my sig. Only had the car 5 weeks.

I'd like to get down to low 12's, but WITHOUT alky, and without replacing the turbo. Here's a list of mods / add-ons I was thinking about. First - do you guys think this will get me there? If so, what order do I tackle these things?
If not, what do I need to add to the list?

Spring Cleaning is half-way done (need to do the trans and clean the IC), plus new "HIGH BOOST" plug wires (tks blackgn1), plugs, & coil pack (tks Kirban).

1) Boost gauge (3-bar map sensor required to read over 20#, right?)

2) Scanmaster (2.1 prob)

3) LS1 MAF (replace all plumbing from intake to turbo with 3 1/2"??)
(Does this require a Translator?)

4) Turbo Tweak & flow-matched Mototron 60#

5) 3" downpipe

6) Maybe RJC power plate?

7) Adjustable FPR

8) Thinking about a Walbro 340, but kinda waiting for confirmation that the old FP isn't making enough pressure. Getting a FPG to check that this weekend.

What do you guys think? I really want to try to stay away from alky for now. Even though it's more expensive, I'd almost rather go bigger turbo and intercooler if I have to in order to get to low 12's.

Another note, I don't seem to have problems in the upper RPM range, so I haven't seriously considered new valve springs. But if it will help get to my short-term goal of low 12's I can put it on the list.

 

[1quick6]

Your adjustable fpr will have to move up to before the chip.

I think I'd move a replacement pump way up the list for peace of mind.

 

[groumoutis]

Don't go by the pressure the pump can put out. You have to know what volume it puts out. You need to have both but the lack of volume and you go lean.

 

[coach]

You dont need ALKY to get there, but you will need Race gas. Your not going to do it consistantly without it. Stock turbo in good condition, a good tranny , and some sticky tires. You have the injectors to run big boost. Stock intercooler will do it. I would suggest doing some of the braces and box the trailing arms. Missing or worn out body bushings dont help either. I always recommend tightening up the chassis first before adding a ton of power. Adding power to a car that wont handle it is a waste of $$$.

:biggrin:

 

[87-WE2]

Your adjustable fpr will have to move up to before the chip.

I think I'd move a replacement pump way up the list for peace of mind.

Noted. Thanks for the input!

 

[87-WE2]

Don't go by the pressure the pump can put out. You have to know what volume it puts out. You need to have both but the lack of volume and you go lean.

How do you check flow volume? Isn't there a formula for it based on pressure and the size opening of the tube it's flowing through?

 

[blackgn1]

I would replace the fuel pump no matter what kind of readings. You will be glad you did or sorry if you don't. It's hard to get into the 12's with blown headgaskets. It should be step #1 along with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I know it's something your not looking forward too but the pump change isn't that bad. I just did one two weeks ago. Less than a hour.

 

[wickedtt]

Sorry but without the Alky your making thing harder on yourself..

 

[coach]

Sorry but without the Alky your making thing harder on yourself..

Not with Racegas. Its probably even easier.

:biggrin:

 

[williamsGN]

Here's your conformation... IT ISN'T MAKING ENOUGH PRESSURE :biggrin: If it is now, it won't when you start modding.. also it isn't just pressure, but flow.

Hot wired fuel pump... its a given

Fuel Pressure gauge. Adjust. FPR

Chip/inj./Scanmaster needed to adjust the Chip.

Alky if you don't want to be running race fuel all the time. Alky doesn't make you run faster, it keeps you from knocking with higher boost / larger turbo - your theory of a bigger turbo without alky is incorrect.

If you go with a different MAF, you will need a translator. Don't bother unless you MAF is shot.

Boost will read above 20 with the stock MAP. 3 bar is for progressive alky systems - which you may want if you get alky.

Downpipe and test pipe will give you a nice power boost

Power plate always is a good thing for even air flow to all cylinders.

At 60K with your set up your springs are fine.

 

[Brady87GN]

Sorry but without the Alky your making thing harder on yourself..

I second that. I was hesitant about Alky at first but it was the best thing I've done so far. Scanmaster is a must, upgraded fuel pump, bigger injectors (especially if u plan to upgrade down the road).

Good luck!!

Coach is quite right, make sure to tighten things up so all that new power is not wasted!!

 

[challengermike]

An adjustable wastegate rod.

 

[forzfed]

Not with Racegas. Its probably even easier.

:biggrin:

I wouldn't say that, you can't beat the cooling effect of alky. With pump and alky I went 115.5 mph in the 1/4 on an unopen motor, 24psi of boost with a only a TE-44, stock intercooler. And this was done with 18' of timing and through the stock exhaust system. I could never get that kind of mph with just race fuel.

 

[87-WE2]

I seem to remember mentioning to the previous owner when I bought it that I would do the fule pump but wasn't looking forward to it. He told me it's not that bad of a job, but it shouldn't need it because he did it a couple years earlier.

Just checked pressure & with no vac it's 45psi. I tend to believe the guy because I haven't caught him in a lie about the car yet. I'm convinced he's an honest guy - he almost cried when I drove away with the car on the trlr.

So my new list is now:

1 - fuel pump (maybe - depends on if I believe him about the upgrade)
2 - AFPR
3 - Scanmaster
4 - Boost gauge
5 - Forget the MAF
6 - 3" DP
7 - RJC PP
8 - TT & 60#

what about the valve springs? I've rebuilt a motor once before with my older brother. He's the gearhead & I'm sure I could convince him to help with them, but I'm pretty sure I can get it myself, just haven't been more than "maintenance-deep" in a vehicle for over 20 yrs.

I hear you guys talking flow on the FP - how can I check flow volume? Pull the hose & get a couple milk jugs???:biggrin:

 

[87-WE2]

Alky if you don't want to be running race fuel all the time. Alky doesn't make you run faster, it keeps you from knocking with higher boost / larger turbo - your theory of a bigger turbo without alky is incorrect.

At 60K with your set up your springs are fine.

Help me understand the turbo theory then cause I must have it all wrong. OK - so if you stick a bigger turbo, bigger intercooler, bigger injectors in, you're more likely to get knock? I though as long as you keep enough fuel in the chamber to handle the amount of air you have going in, you shouldn't detonate??

I understand that the alky is used to "prevent" (probably not the right word) knock, but I thought that as long as you keep the octane and fuel level high enough to keep up with airflow, one should be good.

Take me to school, please!

Oh, and thanks for the advice on the valve springs also.

 

[blackgn1]

I would put the best fuel pump money can buy in it. Weather you believe him or not. One lean run and your engine will be on an engine stand.:biggrin:

 

[87-WE2]

I would put the best fuel pump money can buy in it. Weather you believe him or not. One lean run and your engine will be on an engine stand.:biggrin:

Expensive way to clean up an engine, and $200 is cheap insurance. OK - You convinced me.

 

[williamsGN]

Its more than static fuel pressure at idle... the pump has to deliver an appropriate amount under load... basically 1 psi more of fuel for every 1 psi in boost. In other words if your running 20 psi, your fuel pressure must increase 20 psi.

Alky allows you to run lower octane, it lowers the temperature of the air charge going into the cylinders - our highest octane here in 91- crap.

In fact most of us end up running methanol in the alky system as opposed to alcohol. Its cheaper to get and I believe it works better.

Higher octane has higher anti knock properties, that is why race fuel is say 116 octane... allows higher compression without knock - which will blow a head gasket for starters.

Larger turbos will push more air causing you to knock even faster.

 

[87-WE2]

Its more than static fuel pressure at idle... the pump has to deliver an appropriate amount under load... basically 1 psi more of fuel for every 1 psi in boost. In other words if your running 20 psi, your fuel pressure must increase 20 psi.

Alky allows you to run lower octane, it lowers the temperature of the air charge going into the cylinders - our highest octane here in 91- crap.

In fact most of us end up running methanol in the alky system as opposed to alcohol. Its cheaper to get and I believe it works better.

Higher octane has higher anti knock properties, that is why race fuel is say 116 octane... allows higher compression without knock - which will blow a head gasket for starters.

Larger turbos will push more air causing you to knock even faster.

OK - so forget about the turbo and intercooler.

I plan on only running race fuel when going to the strip - maybe 2-3 times a year. Mostly this car is going to be for cruising and the occasional hemi snack on the street.

Back on the gas issue - so I'm more likely to blow a gasket running 114 (what we have around here) than when I'm running 93? Seems that running 93 would cause detonation, which leads to failure of head gaskets (I thought).

Understand about the increase in FP for every # increase in boost. I have no idea what boost is running now because I only have the stock gauge. It pegs out with this chip - I'm guessing around 17# or so as that's what i've found when researching these pit bull chips. I need to get a rail mounted gauge so I can see what FP is doing under WOT. That'll come when it's Scanmaster time.

Trust me, I'm staying out of the throttle until I get some of these mods done. I DON"T want to be pulling a motor right now (or ever really, unless it's to have a bad-ass put back in it).

Be out for about 20 min. to return the pressure gauge. Will be on pretty much all night if that's what it takes to get the knowledge between my ears.

Thanks to all who are helping.

 

[forcefed3.8's]

You will need valve springs. You will need race gas, 110 will be fine. You will need to run around 21psi with the stock turbo to get there. With a translator and LS1 sensor, I feel it is stupid to run a TT chip. Get the extender chip so you can take advantage of the extra air metering of the sensor. With that said, if your stock sensor is working, then the translator and LS1 sensor are not needed. The 3.5" intake will net 0 gains even in a high 10 sec car. Don't try to go fast with pump gas and boost, you will be replacing headgaskets.