Pointers on Hanging quarters, and floor replacement

[WE287GN]

Hey all.. Finally got my parts car home. Looks like i will get a full drivers side quarter, and possibly a good portion of the pass..
Without even anticipating a good floor, ended up being a very usable peice with the exception ofa 8x6" section(just below pedal area) roughfly witch should be easily patched with some flat sheet metal.

My question is to those that have played with this stuff before.Sorry for any repeat questions.
First of all order of jobs..I have bad floors and quarters on my GN..
I was advised to get the body mounts done first, then floor, then cut and re hang quarters..
How does that sound?
While I am no body man, I will be getting help from a couple of guys who like restoring older cars, example..55,56, and 57 chevys ..They have pretty much done it all ..We are talking some custom tweaking and gas welding.

So my main concern is knowing how to mark and measure and what to look for as a reference when removing and re-hanging quarters and floors on these G body Regals..looking to do everything at all factory spot welds and roof seam.
Thanks in advance so much

 

[BILL HAINES]

Big Job Chris

Chris, This Is A Big Job... Give You Credit For Tring. There Are Many Spot Welds,the Factory Seams Are The Way To Go, After Removing All The Glass, And Interior, Take A Torch And Melt All The Lead Out Of The Quarter To Roof Seam, You Will Be Supprised How Much Lead The Factory Used... Then You Can Get To The Spot Welds..you Will Also Need A Mig Welder To Weld The Plug Welds. There Will Be Fit Issues,just Make Sure You Utilize All The Bodylines,door To Quarter Fit,trunk To Quarter Fit... I Usually Use Small Screws To Screw On The Panel Prior To Welding.. Make Sure Your Doors Fit Well(no Sagging Hinges Or Pins Wore) Make Sure Car Is Sitting Level On Susp Jackstands(completly Square)..3m Sells A Weld Through Coating I Use On All Panels That Attach (weld Through Primer) ..

 

[WE287GN]

Thanks for the response Bill..Ya I am diving in the deep end here..The roof seams were easy to spot on the donor car, as soon as I peeled away the vinyl roof it was easy to spot. I lucked out , didnt seem to be any lead, just filler, it was pretty dry, came out in chuncks, factory seam all exposed now.
Next time I get to the car, I will post pics..Dont think I have seen any of the factory roof to quarter around .
Thanks for the tip on the weld through primer, and the screws.
I am getting the idea, before I yank any quarters off of the good car I should line up the doors and trunk lid for reference later..Unfortunately the GN to be repaired was a parts car .By the time I got it, only the drivers door was still hanging , and a previous half ass quarter repair job..

 

[WE287GN]

Here are some pics of the donor body for those who havnt actually seen it yet..VEry easy to get at being a vinyl roof car..You can still see the fuzz on the car from the padding..You can also see how the seam is unfinished by the factory, just covered ..Pictures not that great, but you can see the greenish tint of the filler on the pass side shot.

 

[TURBOV8R]

As far as the floor pans go,as much measuring,cutting and finishing you can aquire and use the one important step should be followed.FIND THE POINT OF THE LEAK THAT CAUSED THE DAMAGE.I've got my interior gutted to repair the pan and I took some time to trace where the water came in from,and rectify so it wont happen again.
The advice Bill gave you is right on,and a good place to start would be from the bottom up.Remember too that the "channels" that are embossed into the pans are there for strength,I've seen flat metal floor repairs and have noticed alot of flex.Do you have T roofs?If so I can bet where some of the damage came from,I can send you some pics on what you may find.Also check around the 1/4 windows,recently parted out an astro roof car and found the lip around them rotted,and the top of the inner roof may have some surface rust.POR-15 will also become your best friend.Go slow,take human bites,Keep everyone posted......

 

[Yedi]

3M panel bond

don't be afraid to look into using a panel bonding adhesive.

we use alot of 3M Panel bonding when putting on quarters, you still need to weld a few spots, but in general, very nice stuff, great corrosion resistance vs. welding ( hot spots ) very strong also.

like anything pros and cons for welding or bonding. gonna cost ya $40 plus for 1 tube, which will be plenty, but way less grinding than welding, but it can be messy if you've never used it, and you need a buch of vise grips.

since your using a used quarter, where the factory spot welds have been drilled, I like to apply 3/4" tape to the outside and apply the panel bond as usaual..after it's clamped and dried when you remove the tape the panel bond has filled the original weld holes, and when it gets painted, looks like factory spot welds...


just my .02

 

[WE287GN]

TurboV8R,Yedi,
Thanks for the replies...I will look into the panel bonding stuff.
As far as the the source of the leaks...Definately the t tops..running down the pillar, heater box was suspect, and the fact that the car sat outside uncovered without a door on it for several yrs..

Good thing about this project is there is no rush. Will be a learning process for me.I expect snags and major bumps in the road..
Expecting my spot weld cutters to come in this week. I opted to try the cheapys first..Will let ya know how I make out.
Hope to get the sheet metal off of the parts car this weekend, or at least started on it..
Thanks guys

P.S. before I go to crazy , I will be pulling the rest of the T-top weather seals off..So far it is not as bad as my last t top car was, but I need to look alot closer..

 

[BILL HAINES]

Panel Bonding Vs Welding

Working In The Automotive Field, I See Both Proceedures. I Wish I Could Say Panel Bonding Is Great, But I Still Feel Welding Is Stronger. Time Will Tell, After A Car Twists And Bends (over Time) Also Considering Hot And Cold Conditions Not Sure If Bonding Will Last For The Long Haul. I Did Attend An Icar Class On This Subject,saw The Videos, I'm Just Not Sold Yet.. But I Do Agree That Welding And Bonding Togather Seems Like A Good Idea As Posted Above. I Have Seen A Ford Pick-up Truck That Had A Bedside Bonded On It And Was Hit After,the Bonding Failed As It Did Not Stick To The Metal,could Have Been A Tech Problem,the Pain Of Welding A Used Quarter On Is That The Plug Welds Are Larger Than If You Were Welding A New Part On,plus The Metal Needs To Be "very Very" Clean, After All Welding And Grinding, I Would Apply A Zinc Rich Primer Over The Bare Metal And Weld Areas Prior To Finishing Off With A Skim Of Bodyfiller...(ppg Dp 90 Primer) Good Luck With Your Project....

 

[TURBOV8R]

Bill,since it seems a legit question for the post,how much stress is the corner of the A post under in a T roof car in the usual rusted out area?(In the corner where the Apost meets the top of the windshield pillar)Reason I ask is I'm going to be welding in a small 1"x3"long "patch" in the area,and was curious as to stiching it all around,or spot weld small areas then finishing off with fiberglass to smooth it out.Just don't want to go through all the trouble and find out the the weld popped or the glass stressed and cracks.

 

[Yedi]

Working In The Automotive Field, I See Both Proceedures. I Wish I Could Say Panel Bonding Is Great, But I Still Feel Welding Is Stronger. Time Will Tell, After A Car Twists And Bends (over Time) Also Considering Hot And Cold Conditions Not Sure If Bonding Will Last For The Long Haul. I Did Attend An Icar Class On This Subject,saw The Videos, I'm Just Not Sold Yet.. But I Do Agree That Welding And Bonding Togather Seems Like A Good Idea As Posted Above. I Have Seen A Ford Pick-up Truck That Had A Bedside Bonded On It And Was Hit After,the Bonding Failed As It Did Not Stick To The Metal,could Have Been A Tech Problem,the Pain Of Welding A Used Quarter On Is That The Plug Welds Are Larger Than If You Were Welding A New Part On,plus The Metal Needs To Be "very Very" Clean, After All Welding And Grinding, I Would Apply A Zinc Rich Primer Over The Bare Metal And Weld Areas Prior To Finishing Off With A Skim Of Bodyfiller...(ppg Dp 90 Primer) Good Luck With Your Project....

I agree to a point, as w/ anything it needs to be clean to properly bond. another example of a bedside reapir gone wrong: Ford F-150 (just like as stated above) bedside bonded on, along wheel well, and top rail, front and back welded. Needed to replaced it, where it was bonded it wasnt fully ground to bare metal, and the panel bonding was only applied in a single bead, not spread out covering ALL of the exposed metal, where it was welded, very poor welds, literally came right off w/ a hammer and a seam buster. ANYTHING, when it is hit, will only hold up so far, I've seen Numereous factory spot welds on upper front rails on unibody cars, tear right out of the metal from a not so hard hit, like you said time will tell. "When in doubt, weld it"

Bill,since it seems a legit question for the post,how much stress is the corner of the A post under in a T roof car in the usual rusted out area?(In the corner where the Apost meets the top of the windshield pillar)Reason I ask is I'm going to be welding in a small 1"x3"long "patch" in the area,and was curious as to stiching it all around,or spot weld small areas then finishing off with fiberglass to smooth it out.Just don't want to go through all the trouble and find out the the weld popped or the glass stressed and cracks.

I've seen people do it both ways. Example, putting a quarter panel on a car, you have to splice it along the C pillar, or sail panel (some will butt it up, overlap, or use a backing plate). alot of guys won't weld this solid, and like you said finish it w/ body filler, not even glass..
Now, I like to weld it all the way accross. and you say " you'll warp the sheet metal" stich weld, keep moving around in a series of short burtst, until it's solid, grind it smoothe, good to go nothing to worry about.

Do your A-Pillar this same way, make your patch piece, and if you can, put it on the backside of the existing pillar metal, (if you have acces to a stud gun, I like to weld a couple studs to the patch piece to hold it tight for the initial tacks) and weld this all the way around, grind it, then then apply your "Glass" over this, very solid repair.

Like everyone else has said, keep it clean, apply weld through primer to both sides of the piece.

PPG DP primers are great, Epoxy based, very durable. I actually use this product as my sealer, (Except in the Omni Line, MP171-173 available in White, Grey and Black. Same product I was told from my paint rep, smells the same) add some lacquer thinner to the 2:1 ratio about 10-15% and it sprays much better, lays down flatter, and flashes off faster. Epoxies are slow, only drawback, and if you rush the basecoat over this it can dull back on you.. I do alot of work in my garage w/ this product and havent had any problems w/ it, VERY reasonable for price also.

 

[BILL HAINES]

Yep

I Agree With Jason, He Gives Great Advice..

 

[WE287GN]

Update

Hey all... Havnt been back to where my parts car is in a few weeks..

Still working on pulling a quarter off..We figured we would start on the worse side for practice before we get to the good quarter...I will be sure to take pics next time around...I see now why some may be inclined to just cut it out..
I had nightmares about spotwelds..LOL:biggrin:

So in the mean time, I figured I should start to poke around at the t roof and see how bad that is..Boy its better at the top of the B pillars than I thought, but the front A tops and basicly the top of the windsheild area is hard, pass worse than driver around windsheild...Glass will have to come out for this, its very week...
What Have I started?

 

[G NASTY]

What's your plan for the t-roof? Mine was worse than that and I bought a t- roof from a doner that is about the same as yours.

 

[WE287GN]

Well.I am feeling kinda frisky in thinking that I can patch it up..Not sure, I am a novice at welding. If it goes really bad, I have a roof I am saving just in case..
I really Dont want to do that. The main reason I was going through the trouble of fixing this body in the first place was because it was a T top car and an original GN body and title is clear ..I know , a Regal body is a Regal body..
How did you go about yours , couple of patches?

 

[WE287GN]

Cut The First Quarter, Good Thing

There was a very nice wheel well in there I can now use.
Well it wasnt bad all in all, very time consuming..Using the cheapy Harbor Freight spot weld cutter($4)..I was able to drill the entire quarter out..I did however Use both sides of it right up by the last spot welds.. The trickiest parts for me, were the the brazed spots at the rear glass upper corner and the upper left corner(being pass side) of the quarter glass..
Now that I know whats under there, I will take my time with the better side.
There were quite a few hidden welds, double welds, hidden extra layers of sheet metal depending on what section..Mainly upper quarter glass frame to inner roof, and the rear glass (the way everything comes together,about three layers)..
Going to be fun putting the roof back togethe with the replaced quarter..The rest was pretty straight forward..
My advise to anyone trying for the frst time.., go slow and if it doesnt move easily its not ready tro come...
Oh ya, and dont try to leave the trunk sill behind, take it with the quarter, other wise you can not pull the quarter down from the roof and try to pull the rear end of the quarter up over the sill at the same time, would need to move in two different directions, not enough flexability in my opinion..now I know..:wink:

Well here are some pics, was late at nie, but they show a little bit..

 

[WE287GN]

Small Update

Chris, This Is A Big Job... Give You Credit For Tring. There Are Many Spot Welds,the Factory Seams Are The Way To Go, After Removing All The Glass, And Interior, Take A Torch And Melt All The Lead Out Of The Quarter To Roof Seam, You Will Be Supprised How Much Lead The Factory Used... Then You Can Get To The Spot Welds..you Will Also Need A Mig Welder To Weld The Plug Welds. There Will Be Fit Issues,just Make Sure You Utilize All The Bodylines,door To Quarter Fit,trunk To Quarter Fit... I Usually Use Small Screws To Screw On The Panel Prior To Welding.. Make Sure Your Doors Fit Well(no Sagging Hinges Or Pins Wore) Make Sure Car Is Sitting Level On Susp Jackstands(completly Square)..3m Sells A Weld Through Coating I Use On All Panels That Attach (weld Through Primer) ..

Now That I have started prepping the GN for repair, I finally see why you wrote"melt the lead out of the seam"

The vinyl roof car didnt have any..!! Imagine my suprise when I started taking the paint down on the GN at the seam.." where is the seam?? "
Will propane or napp be hot enough???

Might get some pics off later..

Both quarters are off the donor car, cut the roof and firewall off, cut floor just behind rearfloor body brace..not sure exactly how I am going to do it yet..
Getting there..lots of work so far, hope I can pull it off so it comes out halfway decent..

When the floor is done I will feel alot better..Seems to me that has me scared the most..

 

[BILL HAINES]

Yep, You Sure Are Into It!!!

Chris, Yes Propane Will Be Hot Enough To Melt Out The Lead, Use A Wire Brush While Heating. Did You Come Up With Some T Roof Metal Inner Structure.. It's Hard To Find A Clean Used Troof Section. Did You Ever Consider An Astro Roof. The Roof Structure Is So Much Stronger Than A T Roof.... Less Rattles,water Leaks,you Maby Past This Point Already But If You Could Locate A Clean Astro Roof From A G Body,you Would Be Futher Ahead..(just A Thought) I Have Had My Car On The Road For A Few Weeks,it's Nice To Just Push The Button,rather Than Stopping,putting The T Roofs In The Trunk,all That Fuss....keep Us Posted....

 

[charlief1]

Chris, I'm about to go through this myself so I appreciate your post. If you have a compressor you can melt the excess lead out and then hit it with air to blow it out. Just watch out for flying debris.

 

[WE287GN]

Chris, Yes Propane Will Be Hot Enough To Melt Out The Lead, Use A Wire Brush While Heating. Did You Come Up With Some T Roof Metal Inner Structure.. It's Hard To Find A Clean Used Troof Section. Did You Ever Consider An Astro Roof. The Roof Structure Is So Much Stronger Than A T Roof.... Less Rattles,water Leaks,you Maby Past This Point Already But If You Could Locate A Clean Astro Roof From A G Body,you Would Be Futher Ahead..(just A Thought) I Have Had My Car On The Road For A Few Weeks,it's Nice To Just Push The Button,rather Than Stopping,putting The T Roofs In The Trunk,all That Fuss....keep Us Posted....

I will consider the astro roof..I did come across a T roof in way better shape, just not 100%
Still up in the air on that one..Thanks for the tips Bill.

Charlief1 happy you liek the post, trying to put up some pics of things I couldnt find when searching..thanks for the tips as well
WIll report back soon

 

[WE287GN]

pics of the roof seam before lead removal

here are a couple of pics in case anyone is interested i tried to angle the shot so that you could see the transistion from sheet metal to lead..