Powermaster brake system conversion

[Ray Kendrick]

my 87 GN has started giving a flash of the dash brake light display each time the brakes are applied. The light only appears for 1 second or less, but it does it every time. One source says it is the accumulator on the powermaster system. Apparently this is an expensive piece and the overall system is less than wonderful. The owner before me had replaced the entire thing just before I bought it about 4 years ago. Rumor has it that there is a "kit" to convert then entire thing to "normal" vacuum power brakes. Anybody got anything for me? All inputs appreciated.

 

[Schwaeky]

powermaster, is that the system that works the boost off of the power steering pump?

 

[Red Regal T]

CHECK MY BRAKE KIT IN THE PARTS SECTION. INCLUDES ALL YOU NEED EXCEPT BRAKE FLUID.

 

[turbotoyz]

schwaeky that is called hydraboost. power master is a electronic hydraboost. the vac system is a very good system and a very easy and inexpencive replacement. the kit is like 120.00 and has everything to make it work. i have preformed 1 conversion and my buddy loves it.

 

[Schwaeky]

I use stock type vaccum power booster. Will be soon getting a full size B-body master cylinder and power booster for the car though. I myself only have one buick car in my coral, an 89 LeSabre. My cutty used to have the 3.8, but it grenaded itself. Running a 455 Rocket in it now. As for the power boosters, do you think the B-body vaccum booster (bigger) would be better than the one that came with the G-body (still running the v6 booster in it..)?

 

[turbofish38]

Dont do it. The brake system componets are not the same between these two bodies. Stick with the G-body parts. Also use a master cylinder with the smaller 7/8" bore. It keeps the fluid pressure high for a firm brake pedal.

 

[Gary Wells]

I would give that change some serious consideration?

I am in the same boat, my powermaster unit is out, but on several threads on turbobuick this same topic or discussion has resulted in several people switching to the vacuum set-up, and then switching bach to the powermaster, due to unsatisfaction with the vacuum set-up. Kirban's has that unit brand new, or they used to have, for About $ 799. Dealerships want about $ 1200. I am leaning toward another powermaster unit, but I am following this thread closely to see the outcome.


TIA

Gary Wells
"TOLTK?

 

[Nick Micale]

Re: I would give that change some serious consideration?

Originally posted by Wells
I am in the same boat, my powermaster unit is out, but on several threads on turbobuick this same topic or discussion has resulted in several people switching to the vacuum set-up, and then switching back to the powermaster, due to unsatisfaction with the vacuum set-up.......TIA Gary Wells

Gary, it is my opinion that the ones changing back to the PM after going with vacuum, either did not do it correctly or had bad/wrong parts. This is based upon the 50 or so vacuum conversions I have done. No one changed back, and all report better braking or at least as good as the PM.

 

[2QUIK6]

An accumulator cost about $70.
Sounds like the accumulator lost its pressure. Its easy to replace and yes, it needs replacing every couple of years or about every 20k miles it seems like.
Here a link to help trouble shoot it, there are several articles here dealing with the brake system troubles.
http://gnttype.org/techarea/brakes/brakespage.html

 

[Red Regal T]

Re: I would give that change some serious consideration?

Originally posted by Wells
I am in the same boat, my powermaster unit is out, but on several threads on turbobuick this same topic or discussion has resulted in several people switching to the vacuum set-up, and then switching bach to the powermaster, due to unsatisfaction with the vacuum set-up. Kirban's has that unit brand new, or they used to have, for About $ 799. Dealerships want about $ 1200. I am leaning toward another powermaster unit, but I am following this thread closely to see the outcome.


TIA

Gary Wells
"TOLTK?

I followed most of those posts and what I got out of it was that about one person in one hundred was unhappy with his vacuum conversion. Ultimately, everyone will change over to vacuum.

 

[Nick Micale]

Re: Re: I would give that change some serious consideration?

Originally posted by Red Regal T
............. Ultimately, everyone will change over to vacuum.

You mean those LIFETIME units are NOT going to be available?

Accumulators for $70? That is last years price, over $150 from GM now!

 

[6=8]

I think even those running the "Lifetime" Powermaster units from Autozone may (eventually) realize that the safety and hassle concerns regarding replacing the entire unit every 2 years or so will make the switch, that is, if they are driven with any regularity. Show/Weekend/Drag cars will probably not.

The Powermaster does have some advantages over Vacuum Boosters: Having power assisted brakes when the engine stalls or holding the car in the staging lanes when bringing up the boost or even adding a high lift cam (no vacuum at idle? No Problem!) are cool items.

In my opinion, the PowerMaster setup was pretty trick in it's day, but with the rising cost of the accumulators and even the pressure switches, I purchased the Vacuum Conversion from Red Regal T for less than a new accumulator costs! My plan is to shelve my WORKING unit before it dies for a 4th time... tag is as "Good" and place it right along side the other 3 tagged as "Bad". It will be nice to see if I can finally drive for 10 years without worrying about that nasty $800 brake booster bill every 2 years.

 

[GNational86]

I conveted my T to vaccum and it feels great. Ive luanched between 8-10lbs of boost before overpowering brakes. I had a lifetime powermaster from autozone last 5 months and i almost crashed the car when the motor refused to run on the unit. That right there made me convert.If it matters I purchased a TT/A valve for the booster.

 

[Gary Wells]

Ok, Nick micale:
how much do you get to go from powermaster to vacuum, complete, and what parts are new and what parts are used?
Including labor and everything?

TIA

Gary Wells
"TOLTK"

 

[Roger]

I bought a complete unit from the junkyard off an '86 Regal - $50.
I don't trust junkyard parts, so I bought a lifetime warranty master cylinder - $40.
The Casper vacuum block for the TTA wasn't available yet - I bought one of the two GM had at that time - $85.
I installed the assembly & the vacuum booster unit from the junkyard leaked vacuum - lifetime warranty one - $90.

A couple times on the street when pulling out into heavy traffic (read WOT- maximum boost & no vacuum to operate the vacuum brake boost unit), I would have some brain dead about 2-300' up the road also pull out. By the time I would realize the road is totally blocked (by the brain dead in the Toyota or the suv), I'd be over 40 mph & have to use both feet on the brake pedal to stop (also the traffic behind me is moving 40 - 50 mph.

I bought a vacuum booster pump for the early '80s Citation to give me vacuum to the brake booster all the time - $240. Had so much trouble finding the necessary 3/8” check valves, I never did finish the install.

After about a year the vacuum brake booster developed a vacuum leak. The leak was not steady & varied with every application & release of the brakes. Troubleshooting my IAC was a real hair puller, until I figured out the vacuum brake unit was leaking. No problem, lifetime warranty, I got & installed another unit.

The now third vacuum brake booster developed a leak in about a week. My last trip home from work with this vacuum booster unit was a nightmare. The computer was adding fuel to the leak & the TR was idling at approximately 2k rpm or 70+ mph. At the seemed like thousands of RED lights, using both feet to hold the brakes, the TR would not idle & would die unless I fed it more foot feed - however it took both feet to hold the brakes. I guess I was fortunate the seat didn't break loose from the floor.
I got my money back for the vacuum booster & have a Citation unused vacuum boost pump for sale & bought a lifetime warranty PM. My IAC is now adjusted properly & the PM always works (so far). The only problem with the PM install was that the old unit had blown the fuse.
You can do what you want & I have two local friends who have had no complaints about their vacuum conversions. I just couldn't see the difference in price - PM lifetime warranty - $199. Vacuum conversion - $505 & couldn't set IAC.
HTH,
Roger
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