Precision front mount intercooler vs precision slic

A properly designed inlet and outlet can flow way more than the typical endtank design. I am going to push this intercooler in the next few years and see if I can male it a restriction. Once pressure drop starts going up we will know flow is an issue and if heat begins to rise, then core size is an issue. At this level, this is as good as an air to air can be.
 
A properly designed inlet and outlet can flow way more than the typical endtank design. I am going to push this intercooler in the next few years and see if I can male it a restriction. Once pressure drop starts going up we will know flow is an issue and if heat begins to rise, then core size is an issue. At this level, this is as good as an air to air can be.

^^ X2.

From all of my conversations with Bell's engineer, Mr.Gwinn, the end tank design as a whole is one of the most crucial areas for intercooler efficiency.

To quote Graham Bell, author of Forced Induction Performance Tuning,

“Perhaps the greatest potential for improvement (in intercoolers) rests in the design of the tanks on each end of the charge cooler. Here the wrong approach can muck up both airflow and cooling efficiency. Always we have to be thinking in terms of equalizing as much as possible charge flow down each tube. Keep in mind that flow losses increase dramatically in those tubes flowing more air. Also, because the volume is higher and the flow faster these tubes will draw off less heat.”

I know it isn't a popular notion in the Buick world, but using inlet diffusers inside the end tanks can have a huge reduction in the turbulence inside, reducing the chance of flow separation/boundary layer from occurring.

To illustrate that, here is a drawing showing the pressure loss coefficient of a 90 degree bend between two inlets; 1 without air diffusers, and 1 with air diffusers:



Although the drawing on the right uses multiple diffusers, you can still see just how drastic the pressure loss is between the end tank with guide vanes (another term for air diffuser) and the end tank without.
 
Was really just asking about the PTE SLICs compared to the big FMICs available.
i picked up coming off a front mount when i put the pte slic on,but i run alot of alky and make multiple hits, so charge air recovery time is a must.i dont have any data without methanol helping put the iats right where they need to be but i will say the pte slic really helped things move in a better direction i havent seen anything intercooler wise quite do that and i have had a few.
 
I still have an Atr liquid slic on one of my cars the inlet is only 2" and the unit is real small as a whole, but spool up is fantastic feels like the turbo is connected directly to the throttle body, I would love to see the pd/heat transfer data on this they use to say it was good for a 1000hp, still works great after all these years only had to change a $90 shur-flow pump
 
I have a precision SLIC and I only drive on the street. The only thing I don’t like about is I have to be very careful pulling in and out of driveways that have large transitions from the street. I cound out the hard way the first time I took the car out after my rebuild. When I pulled into my driveway the shroud scraped badly. Had to take it off and bend it back into shape. If I go really slowly it doesnt hit.
 
I have a precision SLIC and I only drive on the street. The only thing I don’t like about is I have to be very careful pulling in and out of driveways that have large transitions from the street. I cound out the hard way the first time I took the car out after my rebuild. When I pulled into my driveway the shroud scraped badly. Had to take it off and bend it back into shape. If I go really slowly it doesnt hit.
Leaving my place is fine. Coming home i have to reverse up the large transition to the street so the pipes don't hit

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2.5" inlet and outlet.
Did you also disclose that Red uses a flapper that drops on boost pressure to force air into the upper half of the intercooler. The flapper retract spring /shock could not pull the flap up above 80 mph. The PTE slic intake duct is trash when modeled on CFD. The lower part of core gets the majority of air flow. This is due to the red lower tie bar. An air guide helps this . Ever wonder why the top corner of the intake duct on the stock intercooler is radiused??
 
Did you also disclose that Red uses a flapper that drops on boost pressure to force air into the upper half of the intercooler. The flapper retract spring /shock could not pull the flap up above 80 mph. The PTE slic intake duct is trash when modeled on CFD. The lower part of core gets the majority of air flow. This is due to the red lower tie bar. An air guide helps this . Ever wonder why the top corner of the intake duct on the stock intercooler is radiused??
The airflow does nothing going down the track. We stuffed a moving blanket in the shroud and saw the same temps. The boost actuated flapper was a product of thinking the 9 secs of airflow helps. We have since discovered otherwise.
 
2.5" inlet and outlet.
Did you also disclose that Red uses a flapper that drops on boost pressure to force air into the upper half of the intercooler. The flapper retract spring /shock could not pull the flap up above 80 mph. The PTE slic intake duct is trash when modeled on CFD. The lower part of core gets the majority of air flow. This is due to the red lower tie bar. An air guide helps this . Ever wonder why the top corner of the intake duct on the stock intercooler is radiused??

The best place for a flapper is still in your toilet tank.


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To understand the facts a proper test stand using pressure transducers & thermocouples which are properly calibrated be used to furnish data. The cell / room should be temperature controlled. A battery of tests should be performed & logged for all the candidates. This is the only way to discern the capabilities of each intercooler & eliminate all external factors.
 
To understand the facts a proper test stand using pressure transducers & thermocouples which are properly calibrated be used to furnish data. The cell / room should be temperature controlled. A battery of tests should be performed & logged for all the candidates. This is the only way to discern the capabilities of each intercooler & eliminate all external factors.

The best way to test intercooler is on a drag strip or on a secured testing facility at speed where heat soak can be assessed. We don’t have to spend thousands to be able to differentiate between intercooler capability. Plenty of useful data can be acquired with simple temp sensor and pressure transducer info. The more air the engine moves the larger the mass of the core has to be or it will heat soak. As we already know the grams of air (probably less than 50 grams) flowing over a core for 8 seconds during a pass isn’t going to be able to cool 13-14lbs or air that’s flowing through the tubing during a pass on an 8 sec car. This goes in addition to the actual air flow through it and it’s ability to cool air with the shortest possible pass which will reduce the mass of the core and save weight. Usually going slightly larger on the core is worthwhile since we aren’t looking to save every single pound of weight. The core still has to be the right one and the plumbing has to be correct because any drop in pressure will cause the turbo to work harder and it will not only have a negative effect from the required extra exhaust energy but it has additional downsides from inert gas (pressure and volume) trapped in the clearance volume at tdc.


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The best way to test intercooler is on a drag strip or on a secured testing facility at speed where heat soak can be assessed. We don’t have to spend thousands to be able to differentiate between intercooler capability. Plenty of useful data can be acquired with simple temp sensor and pressure transducer info. The more air the engine moves the larger the mass of the core has to be or it will heat soak. As we already know the grams of air (probably less than 50 grams) flowing over a core for 8 seconds during a pass isn’t going to be able to cool 13-14lbs or air that’s flowing through the tubing during a pass on an 8 sec car. This goes in addition to the actual air flow through it and it’s ability to cool air with the shortest possible pass which will reduce the mass of the core and save weight. Usually going slightly larger on the core is worthwhile since we aren’t looking to save every single pound of weight. The core still has to be the right one and the plumbing has to be correct because any drop in pressure will cause the turbo to work harder and it will not only have a negative effect from the required extra exhaust energy but it has additional downsides from inert gas (pressure and volume) trapped in the clearance volume at tdc.


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Bison, a test stand in a dyno facility that is temperature controlled with the necessary instrumentation can perform all the testing required to come to a conclusion. CFD (computational fluid dynamics) is in the 90% + accuracy as compared to emperical data which is gathered in the lab or at the track. GT power is used in today's environment as a directional tool. The testing that was done years ago at a track (the guy had a graduate degree in aero) was skewed do to varying conditions, cars & equipment but directionally correct. Heat soak can be assessed in a cell. I know because I did it at Sealed Power in Muskegon Michigan for GM Powertrain using an intercooler and a 3800 engine running in the cell . You are preaching to the choir my friend about "mass air" per unit of time within the pass. I could care less about boost other than it being a reflection of what the engine does not use at some displacement,static compression & cam profile. Bottom line, how dense can the cylinder charge air be without causing detonation given the power cylinder's ability to burn most of the charge & to achieve peak chamber pressure between 12 to 14 deg ATC .
 
The airflow does nothing going down the track. We stuffed a moving blanket in the shroud and saw the same temps. The boost actuated flapper was a product of thinking the 9 secs of airflow helps. We have since discovered otherwise.
If this is correct, then why did my intercooler (stock intercooler with a front pocket with water / ice) come back from a low 11 sec pass with just warm water. There is a large amount of heatable mass in a Fairpark chiller like Red's. Also the back pressure is very low due to size, but the air scrubbing for heat exchange is spread over a very large surface. Temperature did increase but not enough to heat soak that monster core. Not only that but running VP or some other race gas is more resistant to knock.
 
The best way to test intercooler is on a drag strip or on a secured testing facility at speed where heat soak can be assessed. We don’t have to spend thousands to be able to differentiate between intercooler capability. Plenty of useful data can be acquired with simple temp sensor and pressure transducer info. The more air the engine moves the larger the mass of the core has to be or it will heat soak. As we already know the grams of air (probably less than 50 grams) flowing over a core for 8 seconds during a pass isn’t going to be able to cool 13-14lbs or air that’s flowing through the tubing during a pass on an 8 sec car. This goes in addition to the actual air flow through it and it’s ability to cool air with the shortest possible pass which will reduce the mass of the core and save weight. Usually going slightly larger on the core is worthwhile since we aren’t looking to save every single pound of weight. The core still has to be the right one and the plumbing has to be correct because any drop in pressure will cause the turbo to work harder and it will not only have a negative effect from the required extra exhaust energy but it has additional downsides from inert gas (pressure and volume) trapped in the clearance volume at tdc.


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Bison, a test stand in a dyno facility that is temperature controlled with the necessary instrumentation can perform all the testing required to come to a conclusion. CFD (computational fluid dynamics) is in the 90% + accuracy as compared to emperical data which is gathered in the lab or at the track. GT power is used in today's environment as a directional tool. The testing that was done years ago at a track (the guy had a graduate degree in aero) was skewed do to varying conditions, cars & equipment but directionally correct. Heat soak can be assessed in a cell. I know because I did it at Sealed Power in Muskegon Michigan for GM Powertrain using an intercooler and a 3800 engine running in the cell . You are preaching to the choir my friend about "mass air" per unit of time within the pass. I could care less about boost other than it being a reflection of what the engine does not use at some displacement,static compression & cam profile. Bottom line, how dense can the cylinder charge air be without causing detonation given the power cylinder's ability to burn most of the charge & to achieve peak chamber pressure between 12 to 14 deg ATC .

I’ll put the hundreds of thousands of dollars to much better use. I have an intercooler that’s working very well. I didn’t get it by copying what’s out there either. You’re taking leaves. You get paid per yard. You spend 2 hours per yard and get 98% if the leaves or you spend 15 hours per yard and get 100%. Which one are you going to do? Engineer an intercooler that gets 98% of the potential for nearly nothing or have an entire r&d department put in place to get 100%?


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