Pressure vs thrust damage

[Alky V6]

Don..I cannot answer you on that as I am not the one who rebuilt it.
Lonnie...I do have steel Mani Caps. If that's what you are refering to..
Could the Pump be modified too much that's causing the Converter to push hard against the Crank with too much Oil Pressure?

Obviously, a bad main cap alignment should be checked for.

Yes. There are some pump mods that can increase converter feed flow and hence pressure builup in the T/C. Excessive pressure in the T/C will cause excessive push on the crank thrust surface, causing it to overheat. Teeing into the 'out' cooler line close to the transmission will give you a good clue as to what the T/C charge pressure is. This check absolutely should be done.

Don't use any restrictor fittings in the cooler system.

Get with your tranny builder and have him trace down the mod that may be increasing flow to the T/C. Reverse the mod. A very common mod is done to the second land of the PR valve. It is commonly overdone and allows an unnecessary amount of converter feed flow. If your using an aftermarket PR valve, study it very carefully to determine if the design may be increasing T/C flow. If there is any chance of that, replace it with an OEM valve.

 

[J-B Racing]

Obviously, a bad main cap alignment should be checked for.

Yes. There are some pump mods that can increase converter feed flow and hence pressure builup in the T/C. Excessive pressure in the T/C will cause excessive push on the crank thrust surface, causing it to overheat. Teeing into the 'out' cooler line close to the transmission will give you a good clue as to what the T/C charge pressure is. This check absolutely should be done.

Don't use any restrictor fittings in the cooler system.

Get with your tranny builder and have him trace down the mod that may be increasing flow to the T/C. Reverse the mod. A very common mod is done to the second land of the PR valve. It is commonly overdone and allows an unnecessary amount of converter feed flow. If your using an aftermarket PR valve, study it very carefully to determine if the design may be increasing T/C flow. If there is any chance of that, replace it with an OEM valve.

Good $hit Don...
Will do

 

[fc227]

I changed the Main Bearing because of Thrust Wear 3 weeks ago. I checked the Crank end play today and it's starting again.
What the Hell is the solution to this nightmare that I didn't have a few years ago??

How did the crank look ? Did you pull the engine or drop the pan ?

 

[J-B Racing]

How did the crank look ? Did you pull the engine or drop the pan ?

Did the job from under the Car. Pulled off the Crank and only had to weld the side that the Bearing chewed the Crank.
Inexpensive way to go, but have to do it again..Doesn't make sense..

 

[fc227]

So the crank was freshly machined? Did it spin free after reinstall ( If you could clear the rods)?

What was the end play on the fresh reinstall?

 

[J-B Racing]

So the crank was freshly machined? Did it spin free after reinstall ( If you could clear the rods)?

What was the end play on the fresh reinstall?

What is your point?
Problem is with the Transmission not the Motor..

 

[fc227]

Just wondering if it was a machining issue, that’s all.

 

[J-B Racing]

Just wondering if it was a machining issue, that’s all.

No Dude..after 25 years of engine building, I don't think so.
Machine Shop did a very good welding job on the Crank.
Journals were flawless.
I can put my hand in Fire the Trans Pump is pushing too much oil pressure.


Joe

 

[J-B Racing]

I have never seen a 200 cause a thrust problem problem unless you have a cooler restriction or something odd like that. I have see it once with a JW wheel and vigilante Converter where the bolts hit the back of the converter. I have seen many steel cap engines have thrust issues. If there is enough pump pressure causing hi converter charge I guess it could cause it but I would not think so.

Lonnie
How much clearance between the Pump of the Trans and the Converter?
I was told 1/8" is good enough and shim the rest between the Flywheel and the Converter...But make sure that the Converter Pilot slips in the Crank.
CORRECT??

 

[bison]

Lonnie
How much clearance between the Pump of the Trans and the Converter?
I was told 1/8" is good enough and shim the rest between the Flywheel and the Converter...But make sure that the Converter Pilot slips in the Crank.
CORRECT??

That what ive always done and i havent had a problem. I bought a car 2 years ago and the converter pilot was seized in the crank. The thrust was wiped out bad. Now i coat the pilot with some grease to prevent rusting in place.

 

[quickt]

Lonnie
How much clearance between the Pump of the Trans and the Converter?
I was told 1/8" is good enough and shim the rest between the Flywheel and the Converter...But make sure that the Converter Pilot slips in the Crank.
CORRECT??

That is correct 1/8 is fine

 

[quickt]

Don has a good point. You should grind small flat on PR valve and most PRs that I see have been ground all the way off. Might be on to something.

 

[quickt]

Just wondering if it was a machining issue, that’s all.

More than likely not a machining issue. The steel caps will walk all over the place. Thats why I hate use them. When you machine them they will be on the money then loosen and re-torque and they will be different.

 

[J-B Racing]

Thanks guys for all your help..

Greatly appreciated.


JB

 

[Alky V6]

Don has a good point. You should grind small flat on PR valve and most PRs that I see have been ground all the way off. Might be on to something.

I can tell you're starting to see the light. Remember the full time lube mods? Drill a 1/16" hole through one of the walls in the VB in the vacinity of the PR valve? A 1/16" hole was the recommended size to provide full time lube to the complete transmission no matter what the position of the PR valve at full load. The small flats that are ground on every new replacement PR valve for the 200-4R are those '1/16" full time lube holes'. You don't need more than that. In the early years of the 700R-4 and 200-4R, it was very common to see suggestions to modify the PR valve by grinding the 2nd land almost completely off, or completely off. That eliminates the chance of the PR valve being able to control converter feed at all! Yipes!

 

[SNOWBIRD]

What Would You Do If You Only Had A Total Of .200 In Between Flywheel And Tc Pushed Into Trans Pump??????? I Went .100 Shim Washers Between Flywheel And Tc,which Gives Me The Same Amount At The Pump.....i Have No Choice Tc Is A 9 In Cpt

 

[Alky V6]

What Would You Do If You Only Had A Total Of .200 In Between Flywheel And Tc Pushed Into Trans Pump??????? I Went .100 Shim Washers Between Flywheel And Tc,which Gives Me The Same Amount At The Pump.....i Have No Choice Tc Is A 9 In Cpt

I don't like using washers or spacers at high load points. Being that .200" is not totally out of the ball park, I would have bolted it up as it was.

 

[SNOWBIRD]

I don't like using washers or spacers at high load points. Being that .200" is not totally out of the ball park, I would have bolted it up as it was.

If i bolt it flat on the flex plate ,the flex plate will be bolted flat on the antiballoning plate,eliminating any flex that is built into it.....flexplate and tc will become one rigid piece......I would think some flex is needed ????? vibration ,,bushing wear etc WHAT DONT I UNDERSTAND

 

[J-B Racing]

I think that SNOWBIRD and I have the same Converter the 19930 AC. Mine is about 3 years old. It has a 1/2" Billet back. I took my Bolts off tonight to see the total play. I have .150" in total, and I had NO Shims or Washers on my Converter. After looking well under the Car. I have a good 1/2" Between the Crank Bolts to Converter. So not hit there. I have a good 1/4" between the Converter and Crank ( around the Snout of the Converter ) So no hit there. There is a good 1/2" or more inside the Crank between the Snout and Crank.
So my conclusion is again that the WHOLE Converter is pushing towards the Block causing Thrust Wear. Their is no F$% way that these Converters are Ballooning. So what do we do. Lower the Pressure in the Transmission which means shorten the Life of it....or what???

 

[quickt]

I think that SNOWBIRD and I have the same Converter the 19930 AC. Mine is about 3 years old. It has a 1/2" Billet back. I took my Bolts off tonight to see the total play. I have .150" in total, and I had NO Shims or Washers on my Converter. After looking well under the Car. I have a good 1/2" Between the Crank Bolts to Converter. So not hit there. I have a good 1/4" between the Converter and Crank ( around the Snout of the Converter ) So no hit there. There is a good 1/2" or more inside the Crank between the Snout and Crank.
So my conclusion is again that the WHOLE Converter is pushing towards the Block causing Thrust Wear. Their is no F$% way that these Converters are Ballooning. So what do we do. Lower the Pressure in the Transmission which means shorten the Life of it....or what???

Line pressure and converter charge pressure are 2 different things. In the 400 its easy to leave line alone and low charge psi. The 200 not so easy. Did you make sure that you checked the PR valve to be sure the land was not removed?