PT-67 Ptrim Question

[Underboost]

Whats the fastest anyone has gone with a PT-67 P trim w/.63housing? Thanks just curious.

 

[GSX-PKV]

I've run the numbers in my signature below with a fully equipped car that weighs nearly 3700 lbs with me in it at 21lbs boost on DOT MT street radials through a full exhaust. I "baby" my car and I leave the line easy (high 1.6's 60ft) but at 126mph it could run a couple tenths quicker if I left harder and took my spare from the trunk, etc. but I like to run the car just like it is driven on the street. The .63 ar if perfect for the street IMO.

 

[johnplogii]

I've been 10.38 at 129 with a te67 wich has the small compressor housing, I believe scott atk went 10.05 or so.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

What stall speed and diameter of convertor are you guys using?

 

[Underboost]

I had a stock bottom end a 3way valve job on the stock irons, RJC IC, 60inj Turbo Tweak, TA Headers, Reds Pumps running only one, stock th&Plenum, open cut out 3200 O stall w/this 67. I ran the 1/8 in my sig untill the bottom end grenaded. lol

I'm building a new Girdled 109 and It should run high 9.90's and was curious what this 67 is capable of. They say 795hp but at what PSI?

I know a pt-71,72,74 would be the best but If I have the 67 I might as well use it.

 

[RUQWKNF]

Ahh, my favorite street/strip turbo.

The 67mm compressor wheel used in the PT67, typically likes to be run from 18psi up to 28psi. Even though it doesn't like to run past 28, there are people who have pushed it to 38. (aka crazy Supra guys) The 795 rating was generally at around 28-30. My personal opinion is, I would not push it past 32 myself as you are starting to over speed the rotating assembly at that point and the charge temps are starting to get very high. For a combo that would have a 67 comp and small shaft P-trim turbine wheel (PT6776S, PT6776SP, PT6776H, PT6776HP, PT6776RLS, PT6776RLSP, PT6776RLH, and PT6776RLHP) in order to maximize it's full potential, you would need a huge FM IC (RJC, Cotton, BA Perf, etc, etc) fully ported aluminum heads with a roller cam, girdled bottom end with good crank, rods and pistons. 65# Mototrons to 84# delphis, double pumper or single external pump, XFI, BS3 or FAST or at a bare minimum Translator Pro with WB tuning capabilities, either alky or C16 and all the proper suspension mods in order to max the turbo out at it's 795 fwhp rating. The same can be said for the PT67 with a GT-Q turbine wheel whose hp rating is around 800-815 fwhp range due to the larger turbine wheel. In a light weight car, 3300-3400# with driver, someone will eventually run high 9's with this turbo, it is inevitable. It will happen when someone builds this exact combo above at that weight and can get the boost up to 31-32 range, drive it like they stole it and with perfect racing conditions.
HTH

Patrick

 

[Underboost]

The 67mm compressor wheel used in the PT67, typically likes to be run from 18psi up to 28psi. Even though it doesn't like to run past 28, there are people who have pushed it to 38. (aka crazy Supra guys) The 795 rating was generally at around 28-30. My personal opinion is, I would not push it past 32 myself as you are starting to over speed the rotating assembly at that point and the charge temps are starting to get very high. For a combo that would have a 67 comp and small shaft P-trim turbine wheel (PT6776S, PT6776SP, PT6776H, PT6776HP, PT6776RLS, PT6776RLSP, PT6776RLH, and PT6776RLHP) in order to maximize it's full potential, you would need a huge FM IC (RJC, Cotton, BA Perf, etc, etc) fully ported aluminum heads with a roller cam, girdled bottom end with good crank, rods and pistons. 65# Mototrons to 84# delphis, double pumper or single external pump, XFI, BS3 or FAST or at a bare minimum Translator Pro with WB tuning capabilities, either alky or C16 and all the proper suspension mods in order to max the turbo out at it's 795 fwhp rating. The same can be said for the PT67 with a GT-Q turbine wheel whose hp rating is around 800-815 fwhp range due to the larger turbine wheel. In a light weight car, 3300-3400# with driver, someone will eventually run high 9's with this turbo, it is inevitable. It will happen when someone builds this exact combo above at that weight and can get the boost up to 31-32 range, drive it like they stole it and with perfect racing conditions.
HTH

Patrick

Thanks Patrick for your info!!
Ok so basicaly I do have all that you have mentioned 72lb inj, New Dbl pump Red's, RJC IC, 3500 O-stall,light weight rods, billet crank, RJC Girdle,JE Pistons 20over, Hyd Roller Cam ground to a 218/218, 3.5 DownPipe w/ 3.5 cut out, TA Headers with EGT bungs in each port, New Len Freeman TH400, SCS rev. Shifter. The downside! Iron Heads as big as they can be ported, stock intake w/ EGR gone. I am going with a Turbo Tweak Chip with the stock MAF no screens or air cone in side, 4'' Tubing with 15'' K&N leading up to MAF so that the MAF can suck as much air as it needs through the 3'' circumfrence. Car weight is 3570 with me. I just would love to hit the low 10.00's or 9.99's with the ECM. Not sure with this Turbo I am on the list for R1's and the Intake at champion, And will be calling Cal for a XFI soon. Then a new Roller Cam 218/218 is because of the ECM.

What are your thoughts? Does this look like a winner, or a loser. lol Don't hold back.:biggrin:

 

[johnplogii]

I believe Don Palumbo has run 9.90's with a 67gtq.

 

[Underboost]

I believe Don Palumbo has run 9.90's with a 67gtq.

See I don't have a GTQ At the time of this new build I knew i need a larger Turbo But then I got to thinking, I said why should I step up now when I haven't even max'd out this 67 good 4 795hp. I guess i need a reason to buy a new turbo :biggrin: I want to know if the turbo I have will work if not I need to buy one that will.

 

[johnplogii]

You have the big compressor cover. I have the small 3 in 2 out cover and mine is a p trim. I plan on getting real close to the 10 flat mark this year with the changes I made over the winter. It can be done but would be easier with a bigger turbo. As far as boost goes mine makes no additional power above 27psi & this is what I have read of many other people's experience. From what patrick says maybe its the intercooler?

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

Thats the "small" E Cover - A/R .60 - S Cover is A/R .70

 

[Underboost]

Thats the "small" E Cover - A/R .60 - S Cover is A/R .70

Ok so what are you saying should I just step up and go w/ PT-71GTQ is this to small of a turbo for 10.0's? :smile:

 

[Louie L.]

Yes Don Palumbo ran 9.92 at 137 with a PT67GTQ. Full weight car , iron heads and AC.

 

[Underboost]

Yes Don Palumbo ran 9.92 at 137 with a PT67GTQ. Full weight car , iron heads and AC.

Will this turbo do the same? I don't have a dbb or GTQ. :frown: Also what housing did he have .85? I need a bigger Turbo!

 

[johnplogii]

I thought the t04e cover had a 3 inch inlet as my te67 does. The one in the picture is obviously a 4 inch inlet.

 

[RUQWKNF]

To answer your question, your 67 has the E cover and HP will be slightly lower. Whenever you see that .60 A/R casted into the face of the compressor cover and nothing else on it, it's a PTE casted TO4E cover. The standard PT67 from PTE comes with the S cover and the HP rating was for the S cover. We would typically see a 10-15hp difference between an E cover and an S cover. So with that said, you're probably looking at around 780-785 fwhp capability with your current turbo. Now, here's your options. You could send your turbo in and see how much it would cost to have it upgraded to a H cover, but know this, no matter what upgrade you do, your turbo will need a new backing plate and a new compressor cover. Another option you could do would be to have it upgraded to a GT-Q turbine wheel. Unfortunately, modifying your turbo from a P-trim over to a GT-Q trim turbine wheel, when it's all said and done would almost cost you what the price of a new turbo would be.

Here's why.
The turbo you have has a small shaft P-trim turbine wheel, in order to upgrade to a GT-Q would require new bearings, new everything internally, depending on the condition of your bearing housing, you might have to change it as well. A new turbine wheel, new turbine housing, new backing plate, new compressor cover, new compressor cover bolts, new backing plate brackets and a new wastegate actuator with the correct backing plate bracket, if you are running an internally gated setup. All of that for just another 20-25fwhp to me, just is not worth it when you could sell your turbo and purchase one that would no doubt get you where you want to be.

Now, as far as selecting one that would easily put you where you want to be, I personally would rule out the PT71 GT-Q because the compressor wheel on that turbo is a high efficiency billet CNC aluminum wheel. It likes to be run in the 28-40psi range and on a Buick application, it's gonna be tough to run the boost really high. To me, with your goals of high 9's, there are two choices.
PT70 P-trim, or a PT70 GT-Q both with a 3-bolt .85 A/R housing. The .63 housing will help with spool up but will choke you down when you start cranking the boost past 26. You would be able to spool the P-trim version on your car right now if you just bolted it on and went. If you're converter will flash to 3600-3800, you will be able to spool the PT70 GT-Q on a 231-235 CI motor.

If you know that someday you will step up your game with a stroker kit (248-250 CI), then go ahead and get the GT-Q version and the .85 A/R housing now. When you go up on the CI, the stall speed requirements will change to around 3400-3500 range. The PT70 P-trim with a 3-bolt turbine housing is rated to support around 825 fwhp and the PT70 GT-Q is rated to around 850-865 fwhp range. I can tell you, it's going to be very very hard to run 9.90's with an E cover equipped 67 turbo at your current race weight of 3570. Not saying it's impossible, but here's something to think about. On my old Grey car at 3670# race weight, my best pass was a 10.07 @ 135. It took roughly 715 rear wheel hp to run that time at my race weight. With the converter that I was running in a TH400 with trans brake (Art Carr 19930 4000 stall) I was seeing about 12% slip and going through the traps at 6300 rpm running a MT 28 x 10.5 slick. At that % my setup was making right at 800 fwhp.

Now, when you look at it like this, you car weighs exactly 100#s less and has a turbo that can make about 20-25 fwhp less that what I was making, you start too see the obstacles. Maxing out your turbo and with 12% slippage would put you at 686-690 rear wheel hp. At your weight and if you had 12% slippage running a 28" tall tire with 3.42 gears and with 686-690 rear wheel hp, you would be running in the 10.10-10.07 et range at 134-135 mph. 60ft times in the mid 1.40s would be required. Now, theoretically, if you ran a TH200 trans and a lockup converter that had less than 12% slippage, you're mph would go up, but I'm not quite convinced it would make it easier to reach a 9.90 pass.

I have an Excel program that was created by Joe Lubrant, that helps predict whp, et, mph, and converter slippage based on your inputs. Even today this program has been dead nuts on, even with time slips in hand. For both of my old Buicks, my good ole Sunbird and even my EVO. ETs are within the hundredths, and so is mph. It also correlates exactly to what my Moroso Power Speed Calculator P/N 89650 says. Your combo is sound with everything else considered. A FAST or XFI will make things a lot easier in the future.
Sorry to ramble on, just hope some of this helps.

Patrick

 

[Underboost]

Patrick

Thank you for all you're help, that is very kind of you to put that much effort into typing. I'm very appreciative I will use this in my benefit. I think the best move to make would be a PT-70 after reading your reply. Thank You,
Brent

 

[Louie L.]

Patrick,
Weve had a suspicion for years now that the 71 just didnt perform like a PT70 GTQ did. Finally there is an answer that backs up our experience.