R12 - Freeze12 - R134 -- what's the best?

[Warp6]

I'm ready to have my system recharged. What's the best refrigerant to use?

I went to Freeze12's website and they said I'd need certification to buy their stuff online. How can I buy this stuff without certification?

How much is R12 going for these days?

How much refrigerant is needed for a completely evacuated system?

 

[1970gsx]

Check a local parts house. I know I can buy Freeze 12 around my way with no problem. Try the smaller places, not the chain stores.

 

[rob nolan]

134a is alot cheaper $4 a can i think you have to licence to buy R12 plus i beleave it's about $30 to $40 a can

 

[OneLethal87GN]

I was looking to do the same thing. Taking the t-tops out just doesn't cool you down enough. My friend said he put some 134a in his car and two weeks later the compressor locked up and broke his belt. This was on a Sentra btw. My mechanic said he probably didn't have any oil in his comp. though. he said it was o.k. to substitute 134a for r12. Everyone else think this would be o.k. as well?

 

[Kevin Turch]

I got some dura-cool at the nats last year, great stuff, went right in and now my car cools great.
Kevin

 

[cruzn57]

r12/ 134

R12 is around $60 to $70 per lb, (at your local garage, installed) .....
Before you can purchase it from a parts house, you must be licensed with one of the A/C associations, (not worth the trouble, unless you plan to be in business doing A/C!.
So the alternative is R134, to do it right ,you need to purge your system of R12,(take it to a garage, please don't vent it into the atmosphere!) then flush it with a/c solvent, while your there, replace your expansion valve/screen, you need to add some oil, either PAG oil, or ester oil, (verdict is out on which is best) check to see the amount you need to add, (usually only a few ounce's)
Now you can add R134, your system holds 3.25 lbs of R12, you DO NOT want that much R134, usually 80 to 85% will work best,
(R134 creates higher head pressure, so add only 44 or 45 oz. or 2.75lbs of R134)
You are looking for 30 to 32 lbs on the low side, and about 200lbs on the high side, over 200lbs means you have to much freon in the system, (it all depands on ambient temperature, high temp, higher press! )
R134 will not cool quite as well as R12, but close! use a thermometer in the center vent, a/c on high, max fan.
you should get lo 40's or high 30's, again depending on ambient temp, bring the rpm up to cool more effectively
So................ choose your freon, and pay the piper!
good luck!
keep the shiny side up!

 

[xlr8ngn]

In an older system like ours, R134 will not cool as well as R12, but it is much cheaper. On a very hot day, you will notice the R134 does not perform as well. My master tech buddy bought some in Georgia the other day for a little more than $20.00 a pound. If you don't have a leak then I would seek out a buddy or friend of a friend w/ a license to get you some. If you have a leak though, it will get expensive quick. Definitely test your system. Also, if you let the R12 out to atmosphere, don't worry your conscience. R12 is heavier than air and there is no way it will make its way up to the ozone layer that is blocking the bad UV waves. They say ground level ozone is bad for us. Maybe it will be doing us some good by destroying that.

p.s. I don't hate the environment, just all of the b.s. politics.

 

[blackbuick87]

Mine was converted to 134 and I think it works great. Much better then the TTops

 

[cruzn57]

R12/R134

When you take the time to obtain a A/C license, You learn how harmful R12, and CFC's are!
If you release your R12 into the atmosphere, you might as well dump your trash in the street too! come on! be responsible!
My system has 134 now, and is with in 1 or 2 degrees of the R12!
I live in AZ, it was 105 here yesterday, my car was capable of 38 degree output! it was much cheaper to use 134, I have both r12 & r134 here, but choose to practice what I preach! (no I'm not a shop, just a concerned WE 4 owner!

 

[xlr8ngn]

There are many people without a license like me who have let R12 go into the atmosphere. Do you know for a fact that r12 is lighter than air and will migrate to the ozone layer and cause damage. I will be glad to listen to facts you have learned from the experts. As many others do on this board, I learn fast. Give it a shot. If you can teach me otherwise, I will change my ways. By educating me, you will be doing this board and the environment a service. Please do not take this as condescending as I would like for one of us to be proven wrong. Either it is or is not bad for the ozone layer as claimed.

 

[cruzn57]

R12/R134

here's a link for you to read, then you can make up you mind!
http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/chlorofl.htm
believe what you want, I feel we all need to do a little to protect earth, No I'm not a tree hugger! or anything like that!
Hey! we own buicks , so we can't be all bad!!!!!!
think about it!

 

[Nick Micale]

Re: R12/R134

Originally posted by cruzn57
When you take the time to obtain a A/C license, You learn how harmful R12, and CFC's are! .................

Do you know how toxic 134a is? Guess that info is not released yet and I do not want to be exposed to it.

As far a R-12 locally, wholesales at ~$25 a can, takes 4 cans for a Regal.

 

[xlr8ngn]

This is the first link I found, is old but seems pretty thorough. I have never read this site so make your own opinions based on its contents.

http://thenewamerican.com/tna/1994/vo10no23.htm

 

[cruzn57]

R12/R134

Hey!
I never said 134 was safe! just less damaging to the enviorment, (besides being cheaper!)
there is supporting research that it is a heath hazard,if inhaled in sufficient quanities,
I support using 134, ONLY because its less harmful,(TO THE ENVIORMENT) AND CHEAPER!!!!!
you make up your own mind on how you want to treat the earth!
besides........ its past my bed time, and god knows I need my beauty sleep! ha ha ha
good night all

 

[MeanBuicks]

My Freon level dropped to the point where the system wouldn't cool a few years ago. About the same time, I had my '84 Cutlass converted to 134.

It certainly didn't cool as well as the 12 and it needed to be topped off every season. Going into the third summer (2001) with the 134, the compressor locked up bad. I cut the belt and so it sits.

Not wanting to repeat this with the GN (which was still uncharged), I decided to try Freeze-12. It took 3 cans to get things going again and it's been working fine ever since (early 2001). (Now I was kicking myself for having driven around so long w/o my A/C because $20 fixed it.)

BTW, my 200,000+ mile A/C system is still 100% original; hoses, accumulator, compressor, cond., etc.

 

[Woody]

Believe it or don't but there are other alternatives to R134 that are oil compatible with R12 and R134.....R12 uses a mineral oil type lubricant whereas R134 uses a different oil ...you may be told by a mechanic you must change your WHOLE A/C system if you change refirigarents....which is not the case with the latest refrigarents........the only thing you may need to check is the condition of the rubber hoses and of course get a new drier. The new stuff has smaller molecules that can leak from R12 hoses

HTH

 

[Warp6]

how does the Freeze12 compare with 134/R12?

 

[Joe 1320]

Where can I get Freeze12?

 

[87RegalT]

Are the kits offered, to convert your system, any good and O.K. for the do it yourselfer?

 

[Warp6]

I had my Typhoon converted to R134 and the people who did it bought a kit from NAPA. I'm guessing anyone could buy it. By the way, that Ty never really cooled good. I just figured it was mainly because it had such a big cabin space to cool. I really don't think it would be fair to compare how well the conversion would work in a GN versus the Ty.

I'd really like to know more about Freeze12. How can I get my hands on the stuff. Like I said earlier, I went to their website and they wanted me to pay $20 for some sort of a certification before I could place an order. I thought I saw somewhere that you did not need to be certified to buy it???