Reverse Cool a Stage Motor ?

[turbobitt]

Has anyone atempted to reverse flow cool a Stage motor ? I'm currently redesigning the cooling passages on my sheet metel intake to fix some mistakes and it got me thinking. I alsready plan on going to a remote water pump to free up some room for the turbo and doesn't seem to be a big issue to reverse cool.

Any thoughts ?

Allan G.

 

[Alky V6]

I would be curious to find out why GM abandoned it.

 

[turbobitt]

I would be curious to find out why GM abandoned it.

Probably because of there emissions strategy and head design are driving factors. For pure performance standpoint I could see the benefit but not sure if the gains are significant. I think I could do it either way without to much difficulty and is why I'm questioning it.
AG

 

[HouseofSpeed]

Most popular reverse cool strategy for GM was on the 90's LT1....but those intakes were also dry....as you mentioned, that design was related to emissions control transitioning into OBD2 systems. I don't know that you would see any advantage to going reverse flow on a Stage setup....but it is an interesting thought.

 

[buickGTP]

Allen G
I do not know if this is reverse cooling or not, but the Indy and GTP motors pump water
through the head and out the freeze plugs or vice versa and no water enters the intake manifold
Steve

 

[Alky V6]

Allen G
I do not know if this is reverse cooling or not, but the Indy and GTP motors pump water
through the head and out the freeze plugs or vice versa and no water enters the intake manifold
Steve

Are they pumping in or out of just one end of the head?

 

[buickGTP]

Donnie
There are 2 belt driven water pumps one on each side and outlets/ inlets on both heads
which are connected to each other thru a swirl pot
Steve

 

[Alky V6]

Donnie
There are 2 belt driven water pumps one on each side and outlets/ inlets on both heads
which are connected to each other thru a swirl pot
Steve

But the connections at the heads are only on one end of each head, correct?

 

[Alky V6]

Also, Steve. According to the info I have, that system is not a reverse flow system. It flows in the normal direction.

 

[buickGTP]

Donnie
Yes the single connection to each head is at the front of the engine
Steve

 

[dereklola]

If it's like mine there is one Cosworth water pump on the LHS which feeds water directly to the LH bank and indirectly via cast passages in the dry sump pan and RH pump (making it look like it's a pump on that side but it isn't) into the RH bank. The water enters each bank via a special manifold made with plumbing fittings into the freeze plug holes straight into the water jacket - and from there out via the holes in one end of each head, with breather hoses on the other end.

Since the heads are interchangeable the outlets can be changed to front or rear depending on the chassis layout.

 

[Alky V6]

Feeding water directly into the water jackets have my ears at attention. Do you know what the ID or OD of the plumbing feeding the water jackets is?
The powersource book shows 1.5" up to the pump, but no size given from the pump to the water jackets.
Thanks.

 

[ravege]

There was a picture, or link to a picture, on the TAPerformance aluminum v6 block page where someone had one of their motors and what looked like an external manifold feeding water to the threaded freeze plugs on the side. They kinda reminded me in design of fuel lines feeding dual carbs like this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220106/media/images. I'm guessing a remote mounted electric water pump with two outlets, or y-block, fed the two manifolds. Looks like TA removed the link.

 

[Alky V6]

There was a picture, or link to a picture, on the TAPerformance aluminum v6 block page where someone had one of their motors and what looked like an external manifold feeding water to the threaded freeze plugs on the side. They kinda reminded me in design of fuel lines feeding dual carbs like this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220106/media/images. I'm guessing a remote mounted electric water pump with two outlets, or y-block, fed the two manifolds. Looks like TA removed the link.

I wonder if branching off to 4 -8 hoses after the water pump, each -8 hose feeding into each freeze plug location, would be OK? I think it should be fine. Presently, I only have 2 -8 hoses feeding the front of the block.

 

[dereklola]

I'm just about at that stage of reassembly - I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them.
Derek

 

[Alky V6]

I'm just about at that stage of reassembly - I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them.
Derek

Cool. Thanks.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

This was commonly used in nascar years ago. They used to feed the center of the block and use their own custom designed gaskets to direct the water flow through the head as they wanted. They also used a high pressure mechanical pump to pressurize the coolant system.

 

[dereklola]

See pics below. Manifolds seal to plain holes in block (and to pump outlets) with O-rings - retained to block with with 10-32 screws. LH pump from the left (front) is water pump, oil pump, oil filter, oil outlet. RH pump from the right (front) is oil/air separator, water passage from crossover at bottom to outlet at top, oil scavenge pump (from dry sump pan). Last pic shows the crossover passage from LH to RH pump via a passage in the cast pan. Hope that explains - if not just ask - Derek

 

[rag231]

Looks complicated, what turns the pumps again?

 

[dereklola]

Pumps are turned by toothed belt off front of camshaft - see pic. These pumps, and variations, have been used extensively on open wheel cars such as F1, Indy, Indy Lights for years. Basic advantages are space utilization and keeping the weight low down. Yea - if you start from scratch it looks complicated but these were pro or semi-pro series so once the parts are designed and made it is easy for us amateurs to keep using them. When these engine were used in the IMSA series many teams achieved similar results with just a flat plate on the front of the engine and US-type pumps mounted on that - see second pic. I don't think anyone is suggesting they are ideal for use GN cars.