SE Turbo Front Mount Intercooler

[bruce]

Well, during staging i dont have what i would call high temps,At least not enough for detonation,Do you feel ill be detonating at the line around 100*,But not in 3rd gear at 7200 when the intake temp is around 190*???

Tell ya what Bruce,Why dont you stop posting hear, beating up on ecu's that are out there, And go build your own fancy ecu since your so smart,with the proper code in which you see fit,Maybe the guys running in the 6s with F.A.S.T ecus could be in the 5's if you built it

I just want my temps going in my motor while at full throttle to be reasonable to ambient.

And no matter what you leave the line at, you want it as close to ambient during hte run as possible,not a steady climb up!I leave the line no more than 10* above ambient,So my launch temps are not an issue at all.

OK, if your doing comparisons with I/Cs that aren't repeatible, or where the tune isn't optimized, how will you tell when you get the right combo.?.

As soon as the list becomes *your's*, you'll have the authority to invite and others to bow to your desires.

I have my own ecm. I did it for fun, not eveyone is motivated by the all mighty $$$. If you want to pay $2,000 a pop, for a piece that's going to be dated/ obsolete, in a few years, to again be reinvented into the latest/ greatest, and continually spending $2,000 for ecms, that's fine by me. BTW, the latest and greatest of the aftermarkets, are still behind what GM was doing in the GN race cars, in the mid 80's. While they're using faster processors, it's the code that makes an ecm, a *winner*.

If you're not watching the MAT how do you know you don't have a problem?.
At what temp. do you think there is a problem with detonantion?.

It's everyone's dream to run at close to ambient. But, testing to do that (or anything else) means having effective code.

 

[bruce]

I have no problem getting along, youll see when you meet me.

I just tell it like "I" see it, Some people dont like it.

Odd, how you reserve the right to *tell it, like *you* see it*, but you tell others not to.

Interesting concept.

 

[Otto J]

Feel free to post you jiberish anytime,Dont bother me none.Never said i was the only opinion that counted. I read your posts and take in info I find relevant and am grateful you do your research.I have learned something somewhere from you im sure.Seems as though you feel you have nothing to learn from my real time expierience at the track with a mid 9 second car.

I dont see how the original FAST ecu is outdated. there are some real fast cars that still run it,True they now have the XFI,But i upgraded for the new features,Car ran just fine with the older box.

As far as MAT temps,I do watch them,Were do you think all this data comes from? A sensor in the manifold,Thats were.

Funny thing is, I paid no where near even close to $2000. for mine.

As far as proper code, Are you saying that my temp sensor is not showing a correct reading?
Im new to this code thing,so please explain

 

[cdsttype]

I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU THINK YOU CAN GET OUT OF AN AIR TO AIR
UNIT.SIZE DOSE MATTER UNTIL PRESSURE DROPS OFF. PHYSICAL
CONSTRAITS OF THE VEHICLE ARE A CONSIDERATION.I DONT THINK
THE ANSWER IS IN THE CURRENT DESIGN.I WILL BE TESTING A NEW
DESIGN YOU HAVENT SEEN WITH REAL DATA TO BACK IT UP.FROM WHAT
I CAN SEE A ACURATE TEST OF THE CURRENT AVAILABLE UNITS HAS NOT
BEEN PERFORMED SO ITS ALL BEEN JIBBERISH :biggrin:

 

[Otto J]

At this point I wish this thread would just go away,I started this thread looking for a better intercooler than i had,I did not bring up Jacks intercooler,But i shared info that i found on my car,Anything else posted by me was to back up my claims and posts against my findings.At this point im sure Jack is not Happy with me at all,But ive been told in emails and pms people think i have a hidden agenda against Jack, Well its not true,Last time i was racing Jack was there and we talked,No ill fealings at all.This is how i wish is still was,Blame others for this spinning out of control.I pm'ed Jack and never got a response,I understand why.But read back in my posts,I never called it Junk,I said it just did not work on my combo.As posted you can see it works for some people,Same as a Turbo in some ways,Dave bamford runs 9.40s with that X-Trim turbo,So far i have not seen another car even close,Works for him,not for others.

If this thread does not die, get rid of it.

 

[V6 Beast]

At this point I wish this thread would just go away,I started this thread looking for a better intercooler than i had,I did not bring up Jacks intercooler,But i shared info that i found on my car,Anything else posted by me was to back up my claims and posts against my findings.At this point im sure Jack is not Happy with me at all,But ive been told in emails and pms people think i have a hidden agenda against Jack, Well its not true,Last time i was racing Jack was there and we talked,No ill fealings at all.This is how i wish is still was,Blame others for this spinning out of control.I pm'ed Jack and never got a response,I understand why.But read back in my posts,I never called it Junk,I said it just did not work on my combo.As posted you can see it works for some people,Same as a Turbo in some ways,Dave bamford runs 9.40s with that X-Trim turbo,So far i have not seen another car even close,Works for him,not for others.

If this thread does not die, get rid of it.

I agree that you did not start the thread against Jack Otto. Unfortunately I think it was highjacked by a couple of guys that had a different agenda.

 

[bruce]

Feel free to post you jiberish anytime,Dont bother me none.

Im new to this code thing,so please explain

Now that's funny. First you *tell* me not to post, then rather then ask a question, you call my efforts jibberish, then as an after thought you ask a question.


*code* is computer code.
It can be rather simple or very complex.
Some *clean* and precise code, can be as little as 10,000 lines of code.

Here is an example of one of the many routines that an ecm might use. As the title says, it's a Power Enrichement Fuel correction based on the VSS (MPH). That way, the tuner can add fuel at the higher aero loadings, and keep the bottom end *lean*, and use a little fuel for in-cylinder cooling. There are a series of NACA papers about in-cylinder fuel cooling.

The 10792 is the beginning line number, for that routine, and the 10815 is the ending line number.

10792 ;
10793 ; Get VSS PE AFR multiplier
10794 ;
10795
10796 LDAA FILTMPH ; MPH
10797 LSRA ; A /= 2
10798 ADDA FILTMPH ; MPH * 1.5
10799 BCC VSSAFR ;
10800 LDAA #$FF ;
10801 ;
10802 VSSAFR LDX #VssPeAfr ; load table address
10803 JSR LKUP2D ; 2d lkup
10804 ;
10805 PULB ;
10806 MUL ; AB = A * B
10807 ASLD ; A /= 128
10808 BCC AFPEMX1 ;
10809 LDAA #$FF ;
10810 ;
10811 AFPEMX1 STAA AFRPE ; AFRPE=F67(COOLDEG) * F67MUL(PETIME) * VSSPEAFR(VSS)
10812 ;
10813 RTS ;
10814
10815 *+SUBRUTN ++BLOCK ID++ *

Then an ecm might have a routine like this, a timing correction based on MPH when in Power Enrichment. Again, it allows for running more timing in the lower gears, and then cutting it back a little, as the engine load and chamber temps., increase. If one was to read up on the Evans Cooling system principles, there's some info., about how while you can watch EGTs, and Cooling system temps., you're still not getting a full and complete picture of what's going on in the chamber itself. All the info., the ecms currently available, use sensors external to the chamber to try and *guess* what combo (of timing and fuel) will work best in the chamber for making best HP.

6145 VSSSPK0 EQU * ;
6146 ;
6147 LDX #VssSa ; load table address
6148 JSR LKUP2D ; 2d lkup
6149 ;
6150 VSSSPK1 EQU * ;
6151 ;
6152 STAA TEMP+5 ; save vss modifier

There are as many possibilities for routines/ corrections, as anyone can possibly imagine.

So while you might be looking at one end of the equation, there's lots of variables. It's accounting for as many variables as possible that make for consistant running. Trying to evaluate any component, or running as fast as possible means, finding out all the sweet spots as you can about your combo., and optimizing them.

Will code solve all your problems?, nope, not if you miss the tune. But, if you have the right code and optimse all that you can the car will be it's fastest, and then evaulating changes, will be accurate.

And yes, those are just simple little routines, just to illustrate what code is.
A more complex routine would be say, using VE, and RPM to calculate the actual air flow thur the engine, and then making some corrections based on how much air the engine is flowing, instead of just it's VE.

So while be jibberish to some, understanding the jibberish, and how to use it to your advantage is just going to make for more HP, and longer living engines.

 

[Otto J]

I didnt put that together,code in your term=variables in my mind.
I understand your point.

 

[cdsttype]

what do you think dave spent to go 9.30
with an x-trim turbo

i know ive spent 40k with already owning the car
and all labor done by myself

he seems to think all i need is his intercooler to get there

 

[Otto J]

what do you think dave spent to go 9.30
with an x-trim turbo

i know ive spent 40k with already owning the car
and all labor done by myself

he seems to think all i need is his intercooler to get there

He also says the car went faster with a 70GTQ

 

[baadgn]

Ted with 4 more pounds of boost????
Be real we all hve seen your boost controller set at 38#s Jack.
and i had a friend at The valley a few years ago you do not know see a datalog you were reading with it saying 30.4,Anyone with a 3 bar sensor knows it pegs a F.A.S.T datalogger at 30.4 or so who know how much it really was.To use you famous quote " I havent turned it up yet"

There is two things buick guys lie about - how much boost they run and the size of their

 

[Otto J]

Bruce,Here is one of the things you mentioned

 

[John Wilde]

Bruce,Here is one of the things you mentioned

Otto,

What the H#LL is that???

 

[Otto J]

John i couldnt figure out how to post a pic of a screen,
But that is a table from the BETA XFI software ive been testing.
It is a spark offset vs air temp

You can subtract or add timing according to the inlet temp
+ or - 12* on a 0 to 255* table

 

[John Wilde]

John i couldnt figure out how to post a pic of a screen,
But that is a table from the BETA XFI software ive been testing.
It is a spark offset vs air temp

You can subtract or add timing according to the inlet temp
+ or - 12* on a 0 to 255* table

Cool deal, I posted the link for the free program in your other thread.

 

[quickt]

Turbo in some ways,Dave bamford runs 9.40s with that X-Trim turbo,So far i have not seen another car even close,Works for him,not for others.

If this thread does not die, get rid of it.

Steve Hues 240" 3550 9.41@142 76 3bolt turbo with old 60-1 compresser housing. I would say thats close.

 

[Otto J]

Steve Hues 240" 3550 9.41@142 76 3bolt turbo with old 60-1 compresser housing. I would say thats close.

Lonnie, I wasnt saying no one ran close to Daves ET or MPH, Just that after the Nats and Dave running 9.40s then mentioning the turbo he ran
( Xtrim71BB) Many a person ran out and purchased that turbo thinking it would make them fast,So far I have not seen another car with that turbo come close.The car Jack mentioned about(granted im sure there is power left in his combo)Has run a best of 129 mph with 29#s of boost.Thats 17MPH difference.Not sure they can get that much more from it.

Steves car is definetly hauling ass,but 4 mph is still quite a bit of power difference and or weight difference.

I Ran right with dave and i was running a GTS76 which is way bigger than his 71 Xtrim,I am heavier than Dave,But i believe high intake temps played a role in my car being a bit off its pace

 

[cdsttype]

cdsttype engine 7000.00
top gun engine 20000.00

we are doing just fine with our combo
dave is not the goal he is the bench
mark if you want to spent that kind of
money to be king.
we are testing several componets on my
car not because dave has them.

 

[Otto J]

Where did you get the number you quote for Dave's motor? I think its way off base.
Actually im sure i know who gave you that number.
My entire stage combo didnt have that into it.

 

[V6 Beast]

Where did you get the number you quote for Dave's motor? I think its way off base.
Actually im sure i know who gave you that number.
My entire stage combo didnt have that into it.

I thought it seemed a little low too.