Series II L67 Grand National??!!??

[CTX-SLPR]

How are ya'll getting around the 1 bar MAP in the L36 ECM?

Any pictures of the oil pan to frame area and how tight was that? Which pan did you use?

 

[WIKEDV6]

What's up, Prasad? It's been a long time...

Anyway Cody and Dave beat me to this swap which was something I've wanted to do for at least 5 years -- but never had the money to buy the GN in the first place. But I'm glad someone I know did it and I'm happy to see the end results.

Kudo's to Cody and Dave for getting this thing done and to the track and putting down some impressive times its first time out. I think the Series 2 3800 could be the next big thing for the GN community -- at least for those wanting to take the technilogical leap in updating their cars. I know it is the FIRST thing I am going to do once I get a GN. I've already done it to my Fiero...

-ryan

Hey what's up Ryan
Busy as usual, you know how it is, too many projects and too little time. It's funny now and then people tell me how they saw a Fiero with 3800 set up in it, more time than not I know they are talking about you.

I am also glad to see someone accomplish this task, I know that the 3800 is the new and improved version of the old 3.8. I am just wondering how far we can push this stock block. I already have few 3800 gen II SC motors on hand. Maybe it's time to start collecting them.

Great job guys and congrats, very impressive runs. Please keep us posted

Prasad:smile:

 

[Trannyman95]

How are ya'll getting around the 1 bar MAP in the L36 ECM?

Any pictures of the oil pan to frame area and how tight was that? Which pan did you use?

These pcms dont look at the map sensor unless the maf sensor fails, then its moreless a failsafe sensor to run in speed density so the car will at least run. All fueling is strictly referrenced off of the output of the maf sensor unless it fails or is unplugged. The oil pan I use is for an F-body car which fits the frame very well. There is probably about 1/4 to 1/2" in a few spots of clearance so there isnt room to move it forward without modifying the pan but it sits in a good spot and wont hit.

 

[ijames]

Great job, guys!

 

[turbows6]

That sounds like too much work considering you could have run faster for less money using off the shelf parts.

 

[Adam Connell]

That sounds like too much work considering you could have run faster for less money using off the shelf parts.

IM just going to simply reply... ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

grats!!!

what boost ?? what cam?

to clear some up guys

the L36 and L67 and L32 (the series III 3.8s) shars the same block

L36 = in Camaros 9.5 CR

L67 and 32 = 8.5 CR

L67 head ar diffeent in olny that the injector bosses are in the head and not the intakes like the L36 motors

I have a L67 block in my car

the mot have gone High 8's on stock block and stock cranks.... most upgrade to the seires III rods ($250 for hte set lol) and Diamond pistons....

rest is CAM and Heads and tune

I run 20 psi in my car to get my times, 2 fuel pumps and i'm upgrading to 79lb injectors

 

[CTX-SLPR]

These pcms dont look at the map sensor unless the maf sensor fails, then its moreless a failsafe sensor to run in speed density so the car will at least run. All fueling is strictly referrenced off of the output of the maf sensor unless it fails or is unplugged. The oil pan I use is for an F-body car which fits the frame very well. There is probably about 1/4 to 1/2" in a few spots of clearance so there isnt room to move it forward without modifying the pan but it sits in a good spot and wont hit.

Depends on the PCM unless all the F-body stuff doesn't have the VE tables enabled like some of the FWD stuff does. Using 98 F-body cable throttle PCM? Big discussion going on over on the HPT board about it and the plans for HPT to unlock the switch so we can turn them on and start tuning them.

Would you mind posting some pictures of how you did the cooling system? From my L67 W-body days I'd like to see how you got the cooling system all linked up with that manifold.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

That sounds like too much work considering you could have run faster for less money using off the shelf parts.

When you have to find a new block things get a bit more open for other ideas. I bet he spent no more money on this than he would have on a 109 to get a turbo crank, pistons, and convert it over to an intercooled car. He's also running faster on a milder tune and less boost than a lot of more modified cars do and there is a lot left in it.

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Depends on the PCM unless all the F-body stuff doesn't have the VE tables enabled like some of the FWD stuff does. Using 98 F-body cable throttle PCM? Big discussion going on over on the HPT board about it and the plans for HPT to unlock the switch so we can turn them on and start tuning them.

Would you mind posting some pictures of how you did the cooling system? From my L67 W-body days I'd like to see how you got the cooling system all linked up with that manifold.

its hit or miss with the Fbody some car need the VE tuning (for just driving around) and some don't

the VE table maxs at 0 psi so for boost it pointless anyway and you cant use othe map senors cuase they don't read like they should in the PCM

tune for the max maf and add fuel with the PE tables works great

the cooling system, since he is using the fbody intakes...... work like it would on an fbody...... enter front of upper intake and out the water pump area, not had and no custom work

the intakes all mate up to to the heads......

 

[Dr.drivability]

A/c???

Very nice work guys! Gotta know, cold a/c and cruise??? I really hate it when guys gut this stuff. I think it ruins the whole fast with class thing. Dave

 

[xXch0dyXx]

That sounds like too much work considering you could have run faster for less money using off the shelf parts.

this is a very untrue statement.

Look at those mods, what GN do you know running very low 11's that has a te60, 3k stall, ported heads, and a VERY mild cam. Not to mention the cars tires werent even checked, not air was put in my air bags, alky barely even on, and only running 17-18psi. This car isnt even tuned yet, its just had a few runs logged and minor changes.

Did i mention it was 1.5 hour drive straight into the staging lanes?

I will agree that it may be alot of work if you have a great running car, but when you need a new engine already, why not go with one that is stronger from the factory and easily available?? How many GN guys have run 9's or 8's on a stock bottom end?

sorry to go on a tangent, but if i wanted to run fast times we would have done some track prep, upped the boost, and dialed the car in perfectly b4 we went. We just wanted some shakedown passes since it had only been running a few days

 

[xXch0dyXx]

Very nice work guys! Gotta know, cold a/c and cruise??? I really hate it when guys gut this stuff. I think it ruins the whole fast with class thing. Dave

i dont have the ac connected right now because we didnt have time to est it up, although i took it off when i still had the gn motor in the car because i very seldom use ac. i may hook it up later on, but i dont drive it when its 90, or when it 30 so i havent really thought too hard about it yet


thanx for all the replies guys, trannyman worked extremely hard on this project and its great for both of us to hear some feedback and get some good results:biggrin:

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

4l60e can hold a trans a brake if the right people biuld it

 

[FJM568]

So are the front drive blocks and the F-body block the same??? And what bellhousing pattern is needed to bolt up to it??? Let's say I wanted to swap one of these(NA though) in place of a 4.3L in an S-10 with a 5 speed, could I use the 4.3L bellhousing or would I need to find a different one???

Oops...Sorry to hijack the thread...Great job on the conversion...I had always thought of doing something like this. Just not enough time and money. Get the shakedowns out of the way and really hammer on it to see what kind of times you can get!!!

 

[CTX-SLPR]

So are the front drive blocks and the F-body block the same??? And what bellhousing pattern is needed to bolt up to it??? Let's say I wanted to swap one of these(NA though) in place of a 4.3L in an S-10 with a 5 speed, could I use the 4.3L bellhousing or would I need to find a different one???

Oops...Sorry to hijack the thread...Great job on the conversion...I had always thought of doing something like this. Just not enough time and money. Get the shakedowns out of the way and really hammer on it to see what kind of times you can get!!!

The blocks are the same best I and anyone else I've talked to know. The bellhousing is Metric 60º V6 like the 2.8/3.1/3.4L V6's found in the older F-bodies. The 4.3L uses the standard C bellhousing like an SBC, you'd need the bell from an older 2.8L S-10. No idea on the oil pan clearance or if the F-body manifolds will clear. Lastly you will need an F-body 96-98 intake and a 98 PCM because the 99+ are throttle by wire.

 

[Project TNX]

Is there any popular site where people stuck stock, or modded 3800S/C's into RWD or AWD cars? That's been a little day dream of mine for a while since I love that engine. It's no LC2 but it's a fun little engine regardless.

 

[SuperCPA]

This sure has me reconsidering the power plant options for my '85 WH-1 roller!

 

[Adam Connell]

ya me too, up until his numbers came out i was thinking an LS1 was my answer... BUT anything Im going to have to fab headers for is getting twins... already decided that lol. :biggrin:

 

[Toady]

Subscribed

11.357 @ 121.40...Boost is around the 17-18 mark, timing is a steady 18 deg and AFR is mid 11s the whole run

Great work, guys! Those numbers on a "shakedown" are amazing.

Silly questions for you: How does the new setup "feel" compared to the 109? I mean does it start quicker, idle better, seem less finicky, etc. Also, with the F-body PCM is the car now OBD-II?