shift points

[Quik Six]

My car did about the same thing a couple of weeks ago. Low power and wouldn't build boost or RPM in lower gears. WOT fuel setting was adding 7% additional fuel. Put that back to 0 and car came back to life.

Pull a plug and take a look at it. Will probably look like it was dipped in carbon black. If so, here's what I would do:

Set FP to 43#. (You can test the FP by turning on the key and cranking up the regulator to 70#-80#'s.)

Set all TT chip settings to Eric's default settings. Make sure fuel matches chip

Double check the TV cable setting compared to current setting

Check the insertion of the PL board into the ECM. Double tape it if needed.

Drive it around a while and, if it cleans up, runs well and is responsive, I'd find a place where you can safely make a good WOT run so you can log data from 40 to 100 MPH. I'd make 2 runs and then post them here.

You should not been running out of fuel with 60# injectors. Could be
the chip doesn't match your combo
fuel used and chip are not compatible
fuel pressure isn't set correctly
fuel pump is NFG
fuel filter is clogged up

I've dynoed mine a few times and I don't have a great deal of faith in a shop sensor stuck in the tailpipe.

Go here and look under Buick 2004r and you will get instructions to adjust the TV cable. http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Inst...ns/default.asp

 

[naste87t]

turn the boost up. I doubt Dusty would spec a converter for 19psi. The shift rpm will increase as you throw more power at it. At 28-30psi id want it to shift around 5300-5400. Peak power is likely well under 5000 rpm especially with the low boost.

Boost wont fix the problem, im running 24psi and my car is shifting at 6,200 rpm on the 2-3 at wot. , heck even if i lower the boost to 20psi it will still shift at 6,200rpm.:biggrin:

 

[naste87t]

even with another 9psi of boost i don't think his shift points will be where he needs them. time to take some weight of the gov.

Did you know that the stock weight on the light governor weight is only 14.7 grams, lets say in his case he wanted the car to shift at 5,800rpm by the time he is done trying to get another 1,300rpm out of the governor by taking weight off it he will end up with no governor at all, he could have many problems from weak valve springs or a TB cable that its set or adjusted wrong, but most likely the tune in his valve body is not right or he may have a cross leak somewhere inside it, the right and correct way to increase RPM shift points on these transmission on the 2-3 at WOT is to play with the valves that control the shiftpoints, land diameter size, location, and spring tension inside the valve body play a huge role in increasing the WOT shift points, like my trans guy said: once the TB cable is set leave it alone, moving it will only cause stiffer harder shifts that could end up breaking parts inside the transmission, the cable play no role other than increasing fluid pressure..

 

[Quik Six]

Agree that TV cable has to be adjusted to correct point or you're asking for trouble. Mine shifted from 2 to 3 at 88 MPH at 6150 RPM with my previous convertor; went to a PTC 9.5 NL and still shifted at 88 MPH but at 5725 RPM.

What is MPH of when yours shifts? I was just driving over my old convertor; more power, same speed, more RPM, more slippage.

Had about 3 guys last fall that had built blocks, GN1 heads, roller cams, and 6765's that were running high 11's and they were shifting into 3rd at 62 to 65 MPH at WOT. Sent them instructions on how to set the TV cable and their cars ran much better.

When you own a turbo Buick, life is never dull.

 

[Boost231]

Did you know that the stock weight on the light governor weight is only 14.7 grams, lets say in his case he wanted the car to shift at 5,800rpm by the time he is done trying to get another 1,300rpm out of the governor by taking weight off it he will end up with no governor at all, he could have many problems from weak valve springs or a TB cable that its set or adjusted wrong, but most likely the tune in his valve body is not right or he may have a cross leak somewhere inside it, the right and correct way to increase RPM shift points on these transmission on the 2-3 at WOT is to play with the valves that control the shiftpoints, land diameter size, location, and spring tension inside the valve body play a huge role in increasing the WOT shift points, like my trans guy said: once the TB cable is set leave it alone, moving it will only cause stiffer harder shifts that could end up breaking parts inside the transmission, the cable play no role other than increasing fluid pressure..

Ok, i agree with you some. Not all trans builders use the stock gov. not all gov weight the same. we would need to find out what the stock weight is. i know on mine, the small weight came in at 18.1 grams because the gov used was not a stock unit.

to get his shift points up to where he need he would only need to take probably around 1.2 grams off the weight.

anyways as far as weak valve springs or incorrect TV adjustment. sometimes i forget to realize not everyone is on the same page. guess thats the nice way to say it.

as far as the correct way to raise shift points. well that for the trans builder to decide which way he wants to do it. for me i will only do what my trans builder suggest. since he will be the one fixing it if it breaks

 

[Quik Six]

Ok, i agree with you some. Not all trans builders use the stock gov. not all gov weight the same. we would need to find out what the stock weight is. i know on mine, the small weight came in at 18.1 grams because the gov used was not a stock unit.

to get his shift points up to where he need he would only need to take probably around 1.2 grams off the weight.

anyways as far as weak valve springs or incorrect TV adjustment. sometimes i forget to realize not everyone is on the same page. guess thats the nice way to say it.

as far as the correct way to raise shift points. well that for the trans builder to decide which way he wants to do it. for me i will only do what my trans builder suggest. since he will be the one fixing it if it breaks

I think we all look at these problems from our own experience or from what we've read that is written by someone we know to have a high degree of knowledge.

I think this guy has overfueled his car because I had the same experience about 3 weeks ago. Head to the track with expectations of running mid 10's and don't double check my chip settings and don't get a PL file but do get a 12.157 ET @ 112.45 time slip. Quasi hot lapped it and get a PL file with a 12.301 ET @113.27 time slip. After my blood pressure subsided, I started looking for the problem. Only God and PL knows how the WOT fuel setting changed from 128 to 137 which increased fueling by 7% which is a boatload of fuel with 80#ers. Also had switched over to the 15# nozzle on alky system so that compounded the problem. Boost was set at 25#'s the day before and car normally shifts from 1-2 at 50 MPH at 6105 RPM. That night shift from 1-2 occurred at 31 MPH at 4447 RPM, boost was 17.4#'s and AFR was 10.19. 2-3 shift was a little better but not much since boost was still down at 21.4 and AFR was at 10.6.

Got settings back to where they should be and somebody decided to oil down the track. I had to be be home at certain time so I didn't get another run in. Did play with it on the way home and it pulled extremely strong right up until it split an intercooler hose. Replaced that hose and put a leak detector on it and pressured it up to 25# for nearly 3 minutes and no leaks. Went to the track 2weeks later and nearby tornado sent me back home. Tweaked it some last week and it is making good power. Will get to the track in a couple of weeks.

I don't know the experience level of the OP but I still don't know when the 4900 RPM shift occurred. My last convertor before the PTC NL, would shift out of first at under 5000 RPM, 21-23 MPH but pull to 6100 in second and shift at 88 MPH.

I also question the use of the dyno operator's WB in the tailpipe. A good friend of mine did that and it kept showing him lean so he kept adding fuel and power kept dropping. I had run my car earlier and the dyno WB showed AFR of 13.3 while my PLX WB showed 11.1.

 

[bison]

Boost wont fix the problem, im running 24psi and my car is shifting at 6,200 rpm on the 2-3 at wot. , heck even if i lower the boost to 20psi it will still shift at 6,200rpm.:biggrin:

It will let him see how much more he needs. His car is going to make approx 500whp@25psi and he has a stock cam. There is little benefit shifting later than 5300 even if he throws more at it. The first thing he should do is throw power at it and see where it shifts. Fwiw where yours shifts doesn't help the OP one bit.

 

[KL Mallender]

If you or others actually see an rpm difference in WOT shifts by changing the cable a few "clicks" in or out, I'll be one to tell you up-front, you are screwing yourselves into stupid human trickery, you (and most every "racer") should have a pressure guage hooked up and working when doing this "type" of adjustment or testing. Learn what you are dealing with.

Kevin.

 

[Quik Six]

If you or others actually see an rpm difference in WOT shifts by changing the cable a few "clicks" in or out, I'll be one to tell you up-front, you are screwing yourselves into stupid human trickery, you (and most every "racer") should have a pressure guage hooked up and working when doing this "type" of adjustment or testing. Learn what you are dealing with.

Kevin.

Don't recall anyone on this thread making that recommendation.

There is very specific way to adjust the TV cable for the 2004r and there are several sources for those instructions and they all say the same thing. None I've seen require the use a line pressure gauge.

I have seen and heard the recommendation to move the cable a click or two towards the firewall to in several other places over the years and I have done it myself. Tranny was custom built from Bruce's catalog over 8 years ago and still performs about the same as it did when it was new after 150+ passes and lots of "play time". It now stays in it's sweet spot all the time. Change to CK servo made the shift a little firmer than I like but I can live with it.

 

[KL Mallender]

I don't really care, most know that by now, but injecting an insult to people in effort to get them to use their head instead following the monkey in front of them is about all I the effort I have left, misery loves company boys, learn how to correct problems yourself, or group hugs during the "Awe Damm" anthem, learn how things work or pay someone witout remorse that has.

Kevin.

 

[SSedan64]

Jake & BTO have TV Cable adjustment Info using a Pressure gauge. Best & most accurate way.
http://www.jakesperformance.com/TV_Cable_Setup_Info.html
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