signs the hot side is too small? time to upgrade?

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

the last time i took my car to the track it was fine until i hit ~108 then the rpms just started falling off

computer showed 0 KR and the AFR was in range.

here's the scan

http://www2.turbov6camaro.com:443/hg/mont.htm

the only thing i can figure is there was knock that it didn't pick it up, or the hot side is to small for this load/power level

this run did blow the head gaskets (not hard to do on these motors lol)

running a master power T70 w p-trim .70 cold .63 hot side

so should i be looking at a new turbo or somewhere else?

 

[bison]

the last time i took my car to the track it was fine until i hit ~108 then the rpms just started falling off

computer showed 0 KR and the AFR was in range.

here's the scan

http://www2.turbov6camaro.com:443/hg/mont.htm

the only thing i can figure is there was knock that it didn't pick it up, or the hot side is to small for this load/power level

this run did blow the head gaskets (not hard to do on these motors lol)

running a master power T70 w p-trim .70 cold .63 hot side

so should i be looking at a new turbo or somewhere else?

You should be looking somewhere else. That turbo should support 130+ quarter passes with no problem. If your blowing head gaskets you have some tuning issues. Thats where id look first. Its not easy to blow head gaskets if the tune is good.

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

You should be looking somewhere else. That turbo should support 130+ quarter passes with no problem. If your blowing head gaskets you have some tuning issues. Thats where id look first. Its not easy to blow head gaskets if the tune is good.

yeah i don't think the turbo is bad, just wondering if the hot side was to small and choking the motor at the top of the track

 

[porsches4lunch]

the last time i took my car to the track it was fine until i hit ~108 then the rpms just started falling off

computer showed 0 KR and the AFR was in range.

here's the scan

http://www2.turbov6camaro.com:443/hg/mont.htm

the only thing i can figure is there was knock that it didn't pick it up, or the hot side is to small for this load/power level

this run did blow the head gaskets (not hard to do on these motors lol)

running a master power T70 w p-trim .70 cold .63 hot side

so should i be looking at a new turbo or somewhere else?

That's alot of compressor for that turbine housing. as stated above, the usual sign is that the EGT are very high.

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

That's alot of compressor for that turbine housing. as stated above, the usual sign is that the EGT are very high.

it was a budget turbo :biggrin: $500 bucks

I have the motor apart and see nothing wrong other then the HG blew out. witch on the 3800 SII motor is not hard to do at boost over 15 psi

if there was a tune issue maybe to much timing? odd i seen 0 KR on the run tho.

what about the stall? 4600 is what i'm running (they put it way to high on me lol)

basically it felt like the car hit a wall the noise came down and the rpms just fell off. i was looking around at gauges to see what it could be lol

 

[JayC]

What size is all your tubing?

 

[forcefed3.8's]

What afr are you shooting for? I see in the 12's on your log. which is too lean. You should be no leaner than 11.3.

 

[Blazer406]

plug gap?

what valve springs are you running? What is the seat pressure at your install height?

 

[Blazer406]

What afr are you shooting for? I see in the 12's on your log. which is too lean. You should be no leaner than 11.3.

I was about to mention AFR.....

+1 I agree..... need to fatten the girl on up!

 

[gn4u2c]

You need a breakdown of what the car has for mods / heads/ cam/spring pressures/ gears/tires exhaust/ intake to make anything close to a real answer to your problem. Hell you might have killed the trans or converter and the headgasket just happened to go at the same time. I have seen that before....

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

What size is all your tubing?

umm i think its 1.5 on the primarys, i honestly don't remember

3inch down pipe to open cut out

What afr are you shooting for? I see in the 12's on your log. which is too lean. You should be no leaner than 11.3.

i run about 11.8 my dyno testing showed 12.3 i mad the most power.

with this run i had 65lb/injectors (i have 85's ready to go in tho)

plug gap?

what valve springs are you running? What is the seat pressure at your install height?

150 lb manley springs at 1.8 install

I was about to mention AFR.....

+1 I agree..... need to fatten the girl on up!

yes i perfer it to be right around 11.8 for safty

You need a breakdown of what the car has for mods / heads/ cam/spring pressures/ gears/tires exhaust/ intake to make anything close to a real answer to your problem. Hell you might have killed the trans or converter and the head gasket just happened to go at the same time. I have seen that before....

p/p heads (235 intake and 180 exhaust flow)
224/215 .334/.335 @116 LSA 1.7 Comp full roller rockers
3.42 gears
325/50-15 tires (mt et street DR) 28 inch

Rossler stage 2 4l60E with upgrade sprags
4600 stall TC

intake is stock p/p to match heads

the car still pulled itself on the trailer, after it cooled down so it would not over heat

 

[bison]

umm i think its 1.5 on the primarys, i honestly don't remember

3inch down pipe to open cut out


i run about 11.8 my dyno testing showed 12.3 i mad the most power.

with this run i had 65lb/injectors (i have 85's ready to go in tho)

150 lb manley springs at 1.8 install



yes i perfer it to be right around 11.8 for safty



p/p heads (235 intake and 180 exhaust flow)
224/215 .334/.335 @116 LSA 1.7 Comp full roller rockers
3.42 gears
325/50-15 tires (mt et street DR) 28 inch

Rossler stage 2 4l60E with upgrade sprags
4600 stall TC

intake is stock p/p to match heads

the car still pulled itself on the trailer, after it cooled down so it would not over heat

So your running approx .570 lift? That cam you listed has very high ramp speeds if it has 116* seperation. Do you have the lobe #'s handy?What part # are your springs? Your ex housing is not the problem. What is your eighth mph?

 

[Otto J]

I would not rule out that 500 turbo.
Would be nice to get some impeller measurement.
Not saying this was your problem,but may be way
more power in a quality turbo.

as far as it laying right down,"sounds" like it went real lean,real fast
it won't always detonate when its lean

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

So your running approx .570 lift? That cam you listed has very high ramp speeds if it has 116* seperation. Do you have the lobe #'s handy?What part # are your springs? Your ex housing is not the problem. What is your eighth mph?

http://www2.turbov6camaro.com:443/camgrind.jpg

1/8 mph = 100.77 is my best @7.1x 1.8x 60 foot

I would not rule out that 500 turbo.
Would be nice to get some impeller measurement.
Not saying this was your problem,but may be way
more power in a quality turbo.

as far as it laying right down,"sounds" like it went real lean,real fast
it won't always detonate when its lean

http://www.masterpowerusa.com/hp specs website.pdf

page 3
part number: 810031-068

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

i redid the log page so you can read it a little easier lol

Thanks thus far for everything,

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Well your AF/R is about 13:1 at 21psi in the middle of the run, start there if you want to keep headgaskets.

Is it me or is this possibly the worst torque converter ever??

TCI - TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Racing Calculators

It's still slipping around 20% at 116mph yet look at 85mph (6700rpm)!!!!

This all could be the converter, and it starting to couple in a way I've never seen during a 3rd gear run.

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Well your AF/R is about 13:1 at 21psi in the middle of the run, start there if you want to keep headgaskets.

Is it me or is this possibly the worst torque converter ever??

TCI - TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Racing Calculators

It's still slipping around 20% at 116mph yet look at 85mph (6700rpm)!!!!

This all could be the converter, and it starting to couple in a way I've never seen during a 3rd gear run.

yeah I knew it was to loose but never thought it was that bad.

its was a 3800 and it was way to tight and the turbo wouldn't spool i sent it in trusting the company knew WTF they where talking about and this is what they sent back

 

[porsches4lunch]

I would not rule out that 500 turbo.
Would be nice to get some impeller measurement.
Not saying this was your problem,but may be way
more power in a quality turbo.

as far as it laying right down,"sounds" like it went real lean,real fast
it won't always detonate when its lean

its not really a bad turbo. Alot of the 5.0 guys swear by them. There are two versions, the earlier versions have a thinner turbine shaft, while the later versions used a "big shaft" . They have been proven reliable up to about 20 PSI or so for years of use. They have made as much as 600 RWHP on a 302 motor. They do have a 70mm inducer but usually came with a P trim wheel and a T4 Turbine housing with either a .68, .81 or .96 A/R Housings, it is VERY uncommon to see them with a T3 .63 housing. Are you sure it is a T70? and not a 60-1? Take off the compressor cover and measure the top of the compressor wheel. If it has a T3 Turbine housing, then ill bet its a 60-1 and should measure about 60mm. If you take off the turbine cover and measure, it should be 56.6 mm for a STG3 or 65.0 mm for a P trim.

 

[Blazer406]

Might look into a PTC converter..... they are making some jam up T-400 converters..... and 2004R converters. I would bet they offer a good 4L60E converter as well. Get ahold of Dusty Bradford on here.... with PTC...... he can probably hook you up with a good converter.

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

its not really a bad turbo. Alot of the 5.0 guys swear by them. There are two versions, the earlier versions have a thinner turbine shaft, while the later versions used a "big shaft" . They have been proven reliable up to about 20 PSI or so for years of use. They have made as much as 600 RWHP on a 302 motor. They do have a 70mm inducer but usually came with a P trim wheel and a T4 Turbine housing with either a .68, .81 or .96 A/R Housings, it is VERY uncommon to see them with a T3 .63 housing. Are you sure it is a T70? and not a 60-1?

yes, look at the PDF file and part number in my above post, its a T4 .68 housing on the hot side. it is also what is stamped on the turbo.

EDIT the .63 in the first post was a typo, crap can't edit it now

Might look into a PTC converter..... they are making some jam up T-400 converters..... and 2004R converters. I would bet they offer a good 4L60E converter as well. Get ahold of Dusty Bradford on here.... with PTC...... he can probably hook you up with a good converter.

I'll see if he can do one for my motor, some dont have the cores for the new 3800 motors to make a stall. I sent him a PM thanks