smoke smoke smoke NEW MOTOR

QUIP'6'

Brian Roman
Joined
Nov 26, 2003
just installed new motor broke in perfectly. anyway now i got terrible blue smoke at idle and start up and at slight reving. checked all the plugs they are perfect. checked the innercooler its perfect and the throttle body is dry as a bone. WHAT COULD THIS BE????? :mad: :frown: :eek: :confused:
 
You're not breaking the motor in with synthetic oil are you? Some guy at my old job who normally did pistons and rods decided to help with engine assembly one day, and he greased the cylinder walls with some synthetic oil treatment stuff instead of normal oil. The engine never broke in. It blew smoke like a train. The motor had to be pulled, engine torn down and all parts hot tanked, and the cylinders lightly honed to get all that crap out. Hopefully the builder didnt use anything exotic for pre-lube in the cylinders. Wiped valve guides and/or valve seals would be the next thing I'd check. Sounds like the majority of smoking happens under high manifold vacuum. I'll need to think about that one.
 
VadersV6 said:
You're not breaking the motor in with synthetic oil are you? Some guy at my old job who normally did pistons and rods decided to help with engine assembly one day, and he greased the cylinder walls with some synthetic oil treatment stuff instead of normal oil. The engine never broke in. It blew smoke like a train. The motor had to be pulled, engine torn down and all parts hot tanked, and the cylinders lightly honed to get all that crap out. Hopefully the builder didnt use anything exotic for pre-lube in the cylinders. Wiped valve guides and/or valve seals would be the next thing I'd check. Sounds like the majority of smoking happens under high manifold vacuum. I'll need to think about that one.
JUST USED MOLY LUBE I USED ROTELLA TO BREAK MOTOR IN AND EOS SUPPLEMENT ALSO STP OIL TREATMENT BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE ZINC ADDITIVE IN THEM. DO YOU THINK I SHOULD CHANGE OIL?
 
lpaulabbott said:
JUST USED MOLY LUBE I USED ROTELLA TO BREAK MOTOR IN AND EOS SUPPLEMENT ALSO STP OIL TREATMENT BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE ZINC ADDITIVE IN THEM. DO YOU THINK I SHOULD CHANGE OIL?
LOL......STP treatment, Rotella, EOS, Moly...I think you went a little overkill, especially when you want friction for break-in. Getting all that oil treatment out wont be easy. STP is thick as hell. Like trying to flush grease out. If it were my motor, I would warm the oil (thin it out) by running the engine awhile and then drain it while its still hot. Throw in a low weight dino oil (5W-30 or 0W-20) and get out there and do some short WOT passes (take it easy break in periods of 500 miles are for engines with crappy tolerances...plus this will help seat the valves much better). Drain the oil and dump in some more dino oil with normal weight. After 500 miles or so, do a compression check. I think your cylinder walls are glazed and the oil rings arent able to scrape the walls dry. Trust me on this one.
 
Will Do. When I Broke The Motor In I Put Rotella,eos, And Stp To Break Cam In So I Wouldnt Wipe Lobes Ran For 2600 Rpm For 25 Minutes. Then Drained Oil And Put New Filter And Rotella And Stp. Maybe I Should Have Left Stp Out Well I Guess I Will Drain Oil And Put In Regular Oil And Put 500 Miles Or So On It . By The Way My Tolerances Were Set At .0018 also why are my plugs and throttle body clean
 
Make sure you get into a little boost(5-7 PSI) periodically as you put miles on the new engine...the pressure from the boost forces the rings outward to help them seat...the rings usually seat in the first 50 miles or so...
 
if it's still smoking you may want to check valve seals. I had about the same thing happen after getting my heads done last year and the guy installed the wrong valve seals. Smoked like a chimney.
 
Ssmnt408 said:
if it's still smoking you may want to check valve seals. I had about the same thing happen after getting my heads done last year and the guy installed the wrong valve seals. Smoked like a chimney.
he said he put positive seals if that means anything. also it smokes when driving and reving
 
oil in DP?

maybe, Check for oil on the carbon deposits in your down pipe a bad seal on the turbo exhaust may be the culprit. Pulling the O2 and looking for discoloration on the sensor can give you some idea. just mi 0.2 cents
 
His throttle body and up-pipe are clean. It cant be a turbo seal.
Hope those positive seals arent the perfect circle teflon types. Those things are garbage. The hype with those seals is unjustified. Alot of shops will machine the top of the guides to take those seals, and in the process, the top 1/2" or more of the guide bore is trashed, leaving you with tons of clearance. Then the valve wobbles around, further trashing the bore, and the wobbling kills the seals because they cant float with the valve like a normal seal would. Teflon distorts very easily and a wobbling valve destroys them. Plus if the guides arent 100% clean inside, the seals will go. You add bronze guides to this and you'll have twice the trouble. The only heads I ever did that came in with PC seals that were still good, came off of race motors that had maybe 100 miles on them. The only right way to set up for those seals is to machine the guides in a lathe and then drive them in through the valve pocket. Then ream them.
 
VadersV6 said:
His throttle body and up-pipe are clean. It cant be a turbo seal.
Hope those positive seals arent the perfect circle teflon types. Those things are garbage. The hype with those seals is unjustified. Alot of shops will machine the top of the guides to take those seals, and in the process, the top 1/2" or more of the guide bore is trashed, leaving you with tons of clearance. Then the valve wobbles around, further trashing the bore, and the wobbling kills the seals because they cant float with the valve like a normal seal would. Teflon distorts very easily and a wobbling valve destroys them. Plus if the guides arent 100% clean inside, the seals will go. You add bronze guides to this and you'll have twice the trouble. The only heads I ever did that came in with PC seals that were still good, came off of race motors that had maybe 100 miles on them. The only right way to set up for those seals is to machine the guides in a lathe and then drive them in through the valve pocket. Then ream them.

Turbo seal most definately CAN be bad at the exhaust housing. It will drip oil directly into the downpipe and it can make an excellet mosquito fog filled with oil smoke. Coincidence? Maybe-maybe not. Stuff like that happens to me all the time. :wink:
 
went and got 5w-30 to run in motor just flushed out all that rotell and stp oil treatment. hope its just the rings not seating with all that slippery stp in it well atleast it saved the cam
 
My money is on the turbo

Check the play on the turbo by removing Downpipe, then grab the wheel on both ends (didnt want to say shaft here ;) ) and check for play by moving up and down and in and out. Ill bet its the turbo.
 
Bob Avellar said:
Turbo seal most definately CAN be bad at the exhaust housing. It will drip oil directly into the downpipe and it can make an excellet mosquito fog filled with oil smoke. Coincidence? Maybe-maybe not. Stuff like that happens to me all the time. :wink:
I get what you're saying. Excellent point. For some reason I was only thinking of it leaking on the intake side.
Now assuming your tune is ok, get your boost down to like 15psi, and right now, or tomorrow, go do some WOT runs almost to redline, wherever that may be on your engine, up through 2nd gear and a little of 3rd. You just want to stay in it for maybe 5 seconds. Do like 4 runs. The rpms and boost are important right now to push the rings into the walls and scrape all that crap out, and break in the rings. Plus it will make the valves seat really well (now is the time to do it), which by itself can double/triple the life of your valves sitting leak free on the seats. After you do this, go drain the oil again (I know its getting old but you should do it), change the filter and throw in some cheapo dino oil, 10W-30, and cruise around nice and easy for the next 3000 miles. Right after changing the oil this time (not the one you just did..the one you're about to do after the WOT runs), do a compression test on all cylinders and write the results down. then 3000 miles from now after you change the oil, test again and see if the numbers have improved. I would take the advise above and pull the O2 sensor out and take a look to see if the turbo seal has indeed gone bad. But whether that is or is not the case, this type of break in procedure can help produce a very clean burning and more powerful than average engine which will last ALOT longer. The motorcycle guys are catching on to this. You should see the pics of an engine teardown on an engine that was broken in the normal way, and this way. On the normal break-in engine, the pistons are all scuffed up, rings dont look very good, valves arent seating well, etc., while the other ones are beautiful. We did this break in on alot of race motors (cars not bikes) on the dyno (well except for the 3000 mile part), and after a 500 mile race, the engines would tear down looking brand new inside. bearings, piston skirts, rings, cylinder walls, etc, all looked fresh. Lobes and lifters looked great. And these were on .600 lift flat tappet road race cams with over 200 lbs seat pressure. We would do that break in procedure on the dyno, change the oil, and then after dyno tuning change the oil again and switch to redline synthetic. The top 6 finishers in top sportsman all had engines built by us.... We built some engines for Winston West (right below nascar), and the results were the same. We were always highest in hp compared to the other builders and more often than not, the top qualifiers in just about every circuit we got involved in. Next to good blueprinting procedures, proper break in is extremely important.
 
Perhaps it is a bad PCV valve. This was the problem when my engine was put back together. It would smoke on startup because the accumulated oil particles in the plenum would make its way overnight down the intake to the valves. It wasn't bad, but it was annoying. A catch can "solved" the problem.
 
will take off pd tomorrow but i dont think it is it because a dp would not get the initial hit of fire to burn oil as it smokes the second it fires up and the other thing i dont think it is the valves is that i let it idle for 20 minutes and it still burned. wouldnt it have burned off the back of valves by them and it burn reving and cruising indicating to me rings. but i could be wrong. it would be a dream if it was the turbo it does move up and down an 1/8 inch and in and out alot it is the stocker with 66,000 on it. JUST DONT WANT TO UNCORK THE MOTOR BECAUSE IT DOESNT LEAK A BIT OF OIL. LOL!!! IT JUST BURNS IT LOL!!!
 
TurboTnZ06 said:
Perhaps it is a bad PCV valve. This was the problem when my engine was put back together. It would smoke on startup because the accumulated oil particles in the plenum would make its way overnight down the intake to the valves. It wasn't bad, but it was annoying. A catch can "solved" the problem.
up pipe and throttle body dry as a bone
 
Just sent you a private message back, I went thur this myself. My uppipe was clean as well as the trottle body but it was my turbo!! It was a fine mist I quess and it didn't settle on the uppipe and such, the was none or extremely little in the intercooler. I took her down the road and hammered her untill she was blowing out a ton of smoke and shut it off at my shop real fast, pulled the pipe off between the turbo and the intercooler and there was the oil!! Got the turbo rebuillt and she has run great since. If you whipped out a cam in it you can almost bet money that the metal got your turbo seals and its leaking somewhere now. Daniel Ray
 
need boost said:
Just sent you a private message back, I went thur this myself. My uppipe was clean as well as the trottle body but it was my turbo!! It was a fine mist I quess and it didn't settle on the uppipe and such, the was none or extremely little in the intercooler. I took her down the road and hammered her untill she was blowing out a ton of smoke and shut it off at my shop real fast, pulled the pipe off between the turbo and the intercooler and there was the oil!! Got the turbo rebuillt and she has run great since. If you whipped out a cam in it you can almost bet money that the metal got your turbo seals and its leaking somewhere now. Daniel Ray
checked mine evrything dry intake and exhaust side of the turbo so its either rings not seated or valve seals and guides
 
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