stage 1 stage 2 whats the difference

[williambavila]

I am in the process of getting a new motor and dont know what the difference is. i am also hearing on center off center blocks. i have a 1987 gn and found a stage 2 on center what will i need to make this work. ie headers intake????? should i just stick with the stock block

 

[captflash]

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[Firechaser]

Stage II motors are for serious horsepower cars, they are 4-bolt mains for starters and generally used for 9.50's or faster...How fast are u trying to go?

 

[williambavila]

Stage II motors are for serious horsepower cars, they are 4-bolt mains for starters and generally used for 9.50's or faster...How fast are u trying to go?

well i figure if i am gonna spend 6500-9k on a motor i might as well get the best i can find? i just want to do this one time. what will i need to change from my stock type setup. i wanna go fast i ran 123 with a stock bottom end but i figure its going to cost just as much for it to be done right as the one i found in the classifieds

 

[Firechaser]

This may help you some...found it in the "Stage II" section, u started me wondering exactly what was involved too.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/stage-ii-tech/266937-thinking-stage-ii-what-look.html

 

[williambavila]

#2 (permalink) October 25th, 2008, 08:50 AM
quickt
Senior Member Join Date: May 2001
Trader Rating: (1)
Posts: 1,283

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95' regal gs
I'm contemplating a Stage II motor for my car if I ever get around to building it. I want a relyable mid 9s setup, I know that mid 9s can be had on a 109, but for how long? That's why I'm thinking Stage II, I figure the cost might be within a few grand of each other because the Stage block won't require the expensive machining for a girdle ect. that's needed on a 109 (am I wrong here?). My question is what should I be looking for, casting numbers, bore size? What else? Also, does a Stage block use the same cam as a 109? I've been told that the cranks are the same off-center on-center. What stroke crank can be used? This will be a street car so the more cubes the better. What should I pay for a Stage block ballpark, just so I don't get raped. Any other info that you deem usefull (besides it's going to cost alot, any way you build these cars they're money pits) is appreciated. Thanks

Cheeper to buy one that is complete.
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Lonnie Diers
Cincinnati, OH
513-898-0553
Extreme Automatics

hahahaha

 

[williambavila]

here is what i found

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Virgin standard bore Stage II block on center
BMS 3.625 crank std/std
Crower 6.5 rods
Ross -20cc forged pistons
Stage II heads fully ported with titanium valves and roller springs
shaft rockers
Comp solid roller
Moroso Pan
Peterson external oil pump
Dawson coated headers
Garrett turbos
Tial wastegates
MSD distributor
SCE titan .042 copper head gaskets
childs and alberts z-gap rings
federal mogul bearings
CV products front drive system
mini starter

This motor is fresh with new pistons/bearings/rings. It needs just a few plumbing items and a couple of cog belts. I was going with a blow through carb so you FI guys will need to modify the intake or get a diferent one. This was my first venture into turbocharging so I purchased the headers,turbos and wastegates from a guy on this site a couple of years ago goes by the name INTHEEIGHTS, he said they are GT-63 P trim turbos ceramic coated.. I also have a glide with brake and super bell and turbo converter for additional cost.

$9,000 obo.
Email is tntracing@mlode.com
209-602-1033

Thanks for looking,
Nate
Attached Images

 

[Firechaser]

Geez! Are you building a street/track or full blown race car? Alot of mods to the suspension and driveline would need to be done as well for that monster :biggrin:

 

[williambavila]

Geez! Are you building a street/track or full blown race car? Alot of mods to the suspension and driveline would need to be done as well for that monster :biggrin:

well webber quoted me 9600 on a stroker and i can get this one for 7500 so y not. and i also have the suspension and a ck full billit trans with the vigulantie converter

 

[turbodave231]

Trust me, You'll need another $4-5K to put that engine in and get it running right. Engine Management, boost control, intake, injectors......and all the little parts that "stock" just isn't good enough. If you want a stage 2 car buy one done!!

Been there done that!

 

[Pronto]

From what I understand, the Stage blocks that are off center will accept all the stock accessory brackets and such. The on center's don't. That might make a difference for what your looking for.

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

Also Stage 2 Blocks have 14 head bolts right??? and Stage 1 [i think] is similar to production 109 blocks.... but im not definite.. i know there is a sticky or guide somewhere

 

[Pronto]

I think you need to define your goals and then see what it will cost to build an engine to meet them. Take that number and multiply it by 2 to get your final cost.

 

[Firechaser]

Take that number and multiply it by 2 to get your final cost.

U said it! Especially w/ all the supporting mods

 

[williambavila]

lol thanks alot guys. i tore my engine down and found the dip**** that sold me the car had said he replaced the cam and timing chain but it has the stock cam and stock chain in the car..with 130k on this motor what would you suggest.i was thinking take it apart get the steel caps and just replace all bearings and rings and a port job on the heads and intake. I ran 119 and 123 the way it sat before.or just try a stoker setup?

 

[Firechaser]

Step 1 is to figure out where you want the car to realistically run time wise then plan your build...low 11's are a hell of alot cheaper then a low 10 build (trust me there!)

 

[williambavila]

Step 1 is to figure out where you want the car to realistically run time wise then plan your build...low 11's are a hell of alot cheaper then a low 10 build (trust me there!)

well i would love to just build a reliable 11 sec motor than a 10sec motor that i will have to play with all the time.I have a stock block what would you recomend i do?

 

[TurboDave]

A bone stock short block with all stock internals will easilly handle 11's reliably. "Massaged" stock heads will make it easier.
60# injectors, something like a 6262 turbo, descent TC, and a good front mount and you're golden.

Then all you'd have to do is find traction.

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

If you are thinking about a stage 2 I would go the series 2/3 3800 route. Those engines are almost like stage 2 blocks and have gone like 8.50 or so on a stock bottom end. It takes a lot to get it to work, but when you do if you blow your engine up head to the junk yard with 250 bucks and get a new one

 

[williambavila]

A bone stock short block with all stock internals will easilly handle 11's reliably. "Massaged" stock heads will make it easier.
60# injectors, something like a 6262 turbo, descent TC, and a good front mount and you're golden.

Then all you'd have to do is find traction.

yes i have a t60 turbo,tt6.0,razors alky,3"thdp,ta headers,front mount,drag suspension,vigulantie 5 disc lockup converter,and a ck full billit trans,powerlogger,scanmaster,wideband. the motor that was in it ran great and i am surprised it lasted as long as it did.so if i go with a built stock motor i should be good for 11's?