Sway bar upgrade question

[Beamer]

I am hoping to find some people that upgraded from the biggie ATR sway bar to an HR system.

I am a little torn on which way to go. You see my sig combo. I truly have accomplished my goals of getting into the 10's and do not plan to go too much stronger in power.

From my video from this link... YouTube - 10.99 buick run daily driver , you will see that I need help with traction as I am almost bone stock. I have boxed lowers, stock sway and QA1 adjustable shocks. The Hoosier 28X9's just are not enough at 14 PSI.

I have been told the ATR is a VERY nice bar, I see everyone that puts a HR kit on, LOVES IT ! The HR is costly and tuff to spend for.

Will I be happy enough withan ATR for my future running? I am looking to box in my uppers, grease the bushings and put new bolts with locking nuts on with a little slop to allow free motions of the arms.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

 

[Boost231]

i would save up and just get the HR Bar when you have the money. you really need to have some of the suspension gurus look at this video. your suspension needs help. that car is bouncing all over the place. looks like it loads good then bounces then unloads the rear the it hooks again.

 

[Beamer]

i would save up and just get the HR Bar when you have the money. you really need to have some of the suspension gurus look at this video. your suspension needs help. that car is bouncing all over the place. looks like it loads good then bounces then unloads the rear the it hooks again.

I rip the tires pretty good and caused the load and reload I believe. I have a couple more videos, maybe I will prepare and post them to youtube for viewing. I mainly put that video up, as it was my very first 10 second run.

I know that my suspension can't handle 10 PSI brake launches as it sits.

What happens in that video (I believe) was a traction loss on the first squat, then the car grabs well enough and squats again pulling the drivers tire off the ground and then settles.

Hopefully I can get some gurus to chime in.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Bump with a dumb question.
Wouldn't this be a shock, spring and angle issue?
As the swaybars are designed to stop the car from dipping onto one side?

 

[HIboostGN]

Idea's?

iHI,
Is the front swaybar on there? It looks like it doesn't have much frontend travel. As i see it without slowing it down. The frontend hits full travel WAY TO FAST then unloads the rear tire that has really badly been driven up into the body on the squatting you are seeing. Did you pedal the car or flat foot it?? Almost looks like you pedaled the car or slightly pulled your foot from full throttle right after the hit? Check your logger or DS and see ? You need to address the squatting or increase the front end travel and SLOWWWWWWWWW down the frontend rise by adjusting the front shock setting to extend harder. At this point it is so bad i would go 50% between where you are set now and full hard on the extension? Now if you pedaled the car by mistake or not then the second bounce or was it the third bounce ( JUST KIDDING ) get's throw out the window. I think it topped out the frontend then that pulled the rear wheel off then it loaded again and then topped out again then unload the rear again. If you really want to dial this car in. Have the video guy tripod mount the camera and use slow when replaying it and the chassis won't lie to you. The angle you shot of the car was pretty good but try and get the pass side that really tells us how far the chassis is squatting and what you need to do. It almost looks like the tires are even with the fenders there not RIGHT? As much as that car squats it would easily cut a tire at a bad time. I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!

 

[8UWITH6]

My car used to leave like yours. Then I installed the HR Bar. Leaves nice and straight now. Need more info on your suspension like the guy above asked. Front bar on? Front shocks? Rear arms boxed or aftermarket? What springs, etc. Car is running good there buddy.......... if you get it to leave nicely I dont see why it wouldnt run a mid 10 :biggrin:

 

[Cme2fly]

My car used to leave like yours. Then I installed the HR Bar. Leaves nice and straight now. Need more info on your suspension like the guy above asked. Front bar on? Front shocks? Rear arms boxed or aftermarket? What springs, etc. Car is running good there buddy.......... if you get it to leave nicely I dont see why it wouldnt run a mid 10 :biggrin:

Front bar is on and will more than likely stay in place.
Front shocks are Bilstein's or the like.
Lowers are boxed ...uppers are stock.
best 60 was 1.57 off the stage-right brake. In the video the car seems to deload when the car is not launched at 10# or more. Mike can add more detail to the post. I just help with the tune..:smile:

 

[Beamer]

Front bar is on and will more than likely stay in place.
Front shocks are Bilstein's or the like.
Lowers are boxed ...uppers are stock.
best 60 was 1.57 off the stage-right brake. In the video the car seems to deload when the car is not launched at 10# or more. Mike can add more detail to the post. I just help with the tune..:smile:

Graig has covered a lot...

Front shocks are KYB gas-adjust, non-adjustables
Rear shocks are QA1 12 way adjustable in down direction only (that Jim Rodgers was aiding in finding a tune for them and the tires)
As Graig said, the front sway will stay on as I drive this car on the street and the rear control arms are as described.

Added in on an edit...
Front has new Moog springs with all bushings, ball joints and TR ends replaced. (1 year old)
Rear springs are Kirban variable adjust (1 1/2 year old)


As for my driving... I knew going to the even that I had an occasional problem with my column shift detent (modified for the stagerite brake), that it would only go into 2nd sometimes vice 3rd on the launch. I made a few runs hitting the rev limiter due to that and I would mentally have more on my mind when launching than I should have. I do believe that I may have pedalled the throttle when launching on the 10.99 run and caused the extra bouncing. I can't gaurantee either way. Although the tires definately rip loose also.

The car feels good and straight when leaving the line, it doesn't seem to pull at least. I do have a lot on my mind with my shifter issue ensuring that I go into 3rd before it needs to.

I am really trying to figure out if I need to spend the dough on the HR bar or not. I want to afford it, but the wallet is fighting back, LOL...

Here is another video from my camcorder of a 11.23 run earlier in the day.

YouTube - Turbo Buick run in Reynolds

Thanks for the analysis all...

Mike

 

[salvageV6]

I'd get the whole rear setup from HR Parts for a driver that needs to launch straight. Drives nicely too.

Got one car with all the HR stuff and one with the ATR bar and boxed lowers with HR bushings.

No downsides to the HR stuff, lowers, adjustable uppers etc. on a daily driver. Launches straight and safe even on the street leaving lights.

Bilsteins on both cars.

No stellar 60 fts. however with either car since LVD in NY usually sucks for hooking. 4 psi. launches is all the track holds on a stocker.

I'd save up the money and do all the HR stuff especially if there's a package deal on it all.

You've probably spent a bit to get where you are now save up for the HR's.

Just my opinion for a daily because we all know the ATR style bars work fine at the track.

 

[charlief1]

I'm not a "guru" when it comes to drag suspension but it looks like the rear shock and spring combo are wrong for the car. Your car lurches slightly to the left and the right squats as the left is lifting. You're getting traction but the car can't put it to the ground right. Have you scaled the car to see what the weight is front to rear and side to side? This will help you figure out where the weight is resting when you launch. If you haven't done this it's one of the best things you can do so you know where your car sits.

 

[breiter]

HR parts....save up, buy the kit, install it and be done with it. You get what you pay for. HR is tried and true. Good parts = good performance. I am happy I did it. My car handles incredibly on the street and launches perfectly at the strip. I will go back and install their motor mounts eventually. I bought GM repalcement trying to save a few dollars and I wish I had installed the HR mounts when I put the engine back in.

 

[Hot Air]

There are two advantages of the HR bar vs ATR bar.

First of all, the HR bar is much lighter than the ATR bar.

Second, the HR bar is adjustable and that ATR bar is not.

Every car will benefit from a lighter bar. The adjustable bar is an advantage if the car is not launching straight and you know how to adjust it to straingten out the launch.

There are two disadvantages to the HR bar vs ATR.

First of all, the HR bar is EXPENSIVE.

Second, The HR bar is much more difficult to install. In my case, I had to replace my ATR 3" dual exhaust before I could free up the needed space to install the HR bar. Thank you Brian at Cotton's Performanced for the killer 3.5".
single exhaust.
Hot Air

 

[8UWITH6]

Im going to say that 2nd video looked better. But some of the serious suspension guru's here are going to tell you to unhook the front bar for racing or get a different shock to aid in weight transfer.

My GN I run stock boxed uppers/lowers, new bushings, stock springs, air bags, and the HR Bar. Front is 90/10s and no sway bar. Nothing special but it works. HR bar stops any body roll. Only "downside" is the front end is a little bouncy on bumps at speed but its straight and doesnt twist.

Your car is running good, have fun.

 

[SS/GN]

I am no expert but I think the cargo type coil in the rear and a shock set up is causing the car to porpoise.I would put stock moog spring in the rear and play with shock setting ,then buy the HR bar a money permits.Good luck!

 

[Beamer]

I am no expert but I think the cargo type coil in the rear and a shock set up is causing the car to porpoise.I would put stock moog spring in the rear and play with shock setting ,then buy the HR bar a money permits.Good luck!

Are you referring to the Kirban variable adjust rear springs? I didn't think they could be a problem, but I will listen for any others to chime in also.

I believe I am going to go with a HR, just got to cut some expenses somewhere.

Mike

 

[SS/GN]

Variable rate or cargo coils are not the best for racing,as the spring lowers the rate changes.You don't want this for racing.This is not based on my own opinion,phone Paul at HR.Paul will tell you what to change and work with you until the funds are their for the bar.Good luck I think you are on the wright track.

 

[Boost231]

i didnt think the kirbans springs where really and issue. i thought it was more to do with the shocks then anything. i just changed to kirbans springs and this is catching my eye. i havent taken it to the track since redoing my whole suspension with pauls stuff and kirban springs and qa'1. we will see what happens.

 

[Beamer]

i didnt think the kirbans springs where really and issue. i thought it was more to do with the shocks then anything. i just changed to kirbans springs and this is catching my eye. i havent taken it to the track since redoing my whole suspension with pauls stuff and kirban springs and qa'1. we will see what happens.

When are you going to the track? This weekend? LOL

It would pretty much suck to have to buy another set of springs, but I will if needed. Maybe a call to HR may be in mind.

As for the launch with my 10.99, I truly can't be sure that I did not pedal the car at the launch, and that caused some of my bouncing. I do know that I made 20 runs down the track Fri and Sat at Reynolds, and I was mentally and physically exhausted, mainly the stress of trying to focus on everything from launching to shifting to what tuning changes was doing what and the times I would get from them. Don't get me wrong (and I am sure you are not), but it was tiring and easy to do something wrong and maybe not realize it.

Mike

 

[Boost231]

going to the track next weekend for the WCN. i still have the old springs i pulled out of the car but man where they shot.

 

[Beamer]

going to the track next weekend for the WCN. i still have the old springs i pulled out of the car but man where they shot.

Super Cool...

Keep me posted on how it goes.

Mike