Switching TSA to a new class TTS

RANDALL

Banned
Nov 20, 2010
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Index. Stock appearing, stock firewall, full interior. No limits, weight, chassis, turbo, cyl head, etc. All you need to do is run the number and satisfy safety requirements. I'd race a couple events a year and I'm sure others would too. Easy way to increase participation w/limited tech issues.
 
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TurboTnZ06

Go on red!
May 7, 2002
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I say any E cover turbo,stock air box and intercooler. Down pipe limit 3 inch. Then let the fun brgin.
DDay
Most of a stock heat shield too, easy enough to clearance one to fit 3 inch pipes that everyone has anyways with a deathwheel and a steady hand.

Maybe grab someone at random in town that has no idea about TR's, or maybe one of the workers at the track. Every racer puts in $10, the RRA can then pay the person the pot to evaluate and say, hey, here's a picture of a bone stock TR. Do these cars all look pretty much the same under the hood or not?
 

jasjamz

THS Racer
Sep 30, 2004
5,336
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How about...
3700lbs 38000lbs with aluminum heads
Run through full exhaust no open dumps dual 3" max
Production 3.8 blocks, no 4.1's
Overdrive Transmission
No Ford 9" rear ends
No External Fuel Pumps
Drag Radials - No Slicks 28" max. Heck make it a 26" and see how that goes(Weight break?)
No Aftermarket Intakes like a Champion race style or M&A
58mm turbo compressor limit E Cover or stock TA style inlet
FMIC allowed but can't come down past the core support. Air to Air only
No External Gauges
No Nitrous
Alky allowed, E85 allowed.
No coil over Shocks/ Springs
 

Sydwyndr

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May 25, 2001
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Iron Heads / production block
FSA intercooler
FSA throttle body / doghouse
FSA Airbox
FSA fuel rails
FSA valve covers
FSA 2.5" DP
2.5" exhaust must exit in factory location
turbo must have bolt on bell
Heads up / Pro Tree / 1/8th mile

The more rules you throw at it means everything is open to interpretation.....
 

11.20n1320

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Oct 16, 2001
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I like Clint rules,if only a 2.5 inch down pipe was available for purchase. I don't want to loose any of our THS racers. I would love to see a stock appearance class. I don't know of anyone who has run 9s with a E cover and a stock air box,intercooler combo. Those items should keep it in check to not get to crazy.
 
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Thumper

Active Member
May 25, 2001
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Well, in my opinion what has been proposed is either still stock appearing or very open.

There have been a few stock appearing classes such as TFS, TSA and TSS. TSS started stock like then progressed and was the longest lasting class, but they all died for the lack of participation. Which brings me back to why they all failed to survive?

There was even once talk about a 58mm turbo class called Grims real street, I don't know if it ever became a reality or was ever raced. Don't even know if the rules were completed, writing rules is not easy in any means.

I personally love the stock appearing classes, as I tried to continue with TSA, but unfortunately history shows participation is very limited, therefore moving on is necessary.

I think with the success of THS that maybe that is the way to go, an open rule class that almost anybody can join in on. Open rules will allow many racers to do as they wish ( stock appearing or not ) and prepare for the progression into THS.

The rules that will be wrote are not about a single car but a mass of possible combinations that really have no where else to race, as to allow as many participants as possible within reasonable rules.

I thank you for your opinions and input. Everything is being considered and rules are very close to being completed.

Thanks
Bill
 
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TurboTnZ06

Go on red!
May 7, 2002
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What about making the ladder 'fun' where #1 runs #2 instead of #1 runs #8 first, in theory you can at least get one good race in against as equal of a car as possible. That is what a lot of guys enjoy, a good close race.
 

Sydwyndr

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Well, in my opinion what has been proposed is either still stock appearing or very open.

There have been a few stock appearing classes such as TFS, TSA and TSS. TSS started stock like then progressed and was the longest lasting class, but they all died for the lack of participation. Which brings me back to why they all failed to survive?

There was even once talk about a 58mm turbo class called Grims real street, I don't know if it ever became a reality or was ever raced. Don't even know if the rules were completed, writing rules is not easy in any means.

I personally love the stock appearing classes, as I tried to continue with TSA, but unfortunately history shows participation is very limited, therefore moving on is necessary.

I think with the success of THS that maybe that is the way to go, an open rule class that almost anybody can join in on. Open rules will allow many racers to do as they wish ( stock appearing or not ) and prepare for the progression into THS.

The rules that will be wrote are not about a single car but a mass of possible combinations that really have no where else to race, as to allow as many participants as possible within reasonable rules.

I thank you for your opinions and input. Everything is being considered and rules are very close to being completed.

Thanks
Bill
IMO why they failed is when you have someone with cubic $$ that runs away with the class and it becomes not "fun or competitive" anymore. If you make it an 1/8th mile race then its a much closer contest. I got bashed heavily for the NC race in the beginning due to it, however TAI was the FIRST to go 1/8th mile in BG and other classes (TSO) followed as well... Just something to think about. For a 1/4 mile race I am all for index racing. Lets say 11.49 or 10.90. People can have fun, be competitive, not beat the crap out of your car and he who has the most money isn't always going to be the winner. I only post this Bill for you to think about when adopting rules for any new class. Too many rules and may as well run TAI or THS.. Also remember is going to be hard to come up with a NEW class with NEW rules that may only be run in 2 places for an entire year.... Not many people willing to spend the cash for that as it doesnt make much sense. If you're considering making rules it may be a wise idea to make them around other classes and other types of racing that already exists, therefore someone can build a car and not only enjoy it once a year in Bowling Green but they can also enjoy it at their local track.
 
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SS/GN

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Jun 30, 2005
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Nobody has put more work, effort and heart into TSA than yourself. I really thought it was a great heads up class that kept a factory look with modern day performance. I think we are coming to a cross road in the TB scene where only a few head up classes will survive. It is simple numbers, fewer cars and the cost to race is more than ever. I looked at some index stuff for myself and I think the GSCA should consider them. It is a heads up start and a type of bracket racing. This makes rules easy to police and gives the owner the right to build as they see fit or affordable. I like the 10.90, 11.90 etc with no 2 steps or transbrakes( the use of these allows the use of starting line aids) I am not a fan of the 1/8 mile stuff, to me it is like playing half a football game!
 

SloGN

I'm a ASSHOLE.....
Dec 25, 2003
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Sounds to me like there is a drive to pull cars from the and or tai...

I think it's time to kill the t classes and start doing index classes....

So that way there is a classes or a index to fit any combo without all the rules stopping anyone combo of parts from racing....

Buick racing as a whole is dying and I see why...
 

TurboTnZ06

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May 7, 2002
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Buick racing as a whole is dying and I see why...
I think there's only so many cars/racers to pull from. It's a dying breed. The Turbo Buick was ahead of its time. Now, the LSx and aftermarket ECM's and "cheap" builds, look at Drag Week - those cars are stupid fast and drive 1000+ miles with budgets all over the place. Stock Corvettes Z06's are fast, even a new Audi, can put a whoopin' on us. Electric enviro weenie Teslas are 2.x sec 0-60. Now, to keep an ancient V6 running fast it takes a lot of desire and money. If I just wanted to go fast, I'd get a $15-18K C5 Z06, throw $25k and twin turbo it, alky, and destroy pretty much anything it came across, would be way cheaper than a Buick and faster. But I like my Buick for some strange reason.
 

Missy

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Oct 20, 2015
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I have to say I am quite surprised at the backlash coming from creating this new TTS class. Did I get upset when TSA died and I had no where to go? Well, no where to go and be competitive? It was certainly a huge disappointment to have to say goodbye to TSA, but I also understand why it happened. I try to be open minded and see the positive for the whole instead of a select few.

I don't feel the intention was to have people jump ship, but to have racers come on board that may have never had a place to fit in. The question you have to ask yourself is, how competitive do you want to be? Isn't that what it really comes down to? In my opinion participants seem to be divided into 2 groups, those that just want to go race and have fun and those who are out for the win. I would like to say that I fit into the first, but if I am honest, I am the latter.

Regardless of what people think, there are still some of us out there that do not want to just add a bunch of bolts ons and go see how fast of a time slip I can get. Anybody can do that right? I personally want to stay stock appearing as much as possible and don't want to turn a 13,000 mile car into a full on race car. Even though I know a guy that had something to do with the TTS rules, I will still have to make changes to be competitive in this class. I can't help but keep thinking, should we have just opened up the TSA rules? I guess that would have at least kept everyone happy.....

On a final note, it is very easy to stand on the sidelines and judge what others do. I am confident that I would be safe to bet there has been very few that has put time, legwork and sacrifices into the Buick community as a whole than what Bill has tried to do.

Missy
 
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Thumper

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May 25, 2001
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There is a rule that I am thinking about, which is after 3 1st place wins the car will not be allowed to be raced in TTS. Therefore allowing the progression into THS as most would want to progress anyway. Thus making TTS a more equal playing field or a starting class... Lets here your thought on this please.
 

Sydwyndr

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There is a rule that I am thinking about, which is after 3 1st place wins the car will not be allowed to be raced in TTS. Therefore allowing the progression into THS as most would want to progress anyway. Thus making TTS a more equal playing field or a starting class... Lets here your thought on this please.
IMO Not sure that it is fair to punish someone for their hard work and effort just because they won the class 3 times by not letting them run the class. What it should do is make others work harder to be more competitive.
 

Kip

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May 26, 2001
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There is a rule that I am thinking about, which is after 3 1st place wins the car will not be allowed to be raced in TTS. Lets here your thought on this please.
I can see it now two cars driving down the track as slow as they can to keep from being eliminated from TTS for good. Who would want to win a low car count field and waste one of their wins? I could go on and on but I think the point is made.
 

TurboTnZ06

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May 7, 2002
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I can see it now two cars driving down the track as slow as they can to keep from being eliminated from TTS for good. Who would want to win a low car count field and waste one of their wins? I could go on and on but I think the point is made.
Could be the All Day IPA talkin', but what if every 3 bolt heads up car runs 2 qualifying passes, no rules but 3 bolt. Take best run, ladder everyone on that ET into groups. So 40 cars = 5 classes of 8 car fields. 16 if we can on the middle group so the numbers work out as needed on the fastest and slowest groups. Could end up with 4 8 car classes and one 16 car class based on the biggest clump of simliar ETs. Then you run heads up ladders like usual on those classes and you can't be a half second faster than your best qual ET? Not indexed exactly, and you run what you brung. I've run multiple classes THS/TAI at the same time, and the cars are alike in many ways, a Buick, a V6, a single turbo. THS has a few 9 sec cars, many 10 and 11 sec cars. TAI, a few 9 sec cars, some 10 and 11 sec cars. Now TTS will be mostly 10-11 sec cars to start with, with 9's possible. TSM was mostly 8-9 sec cars. Even TSO has 9 sec cars in it. It would support vendors in that any gofast part goes.
 

Mr.Spool

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Nov 6, 2006
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"THS and TAI have solid 9 sec cars in them, TAI has like 5 rules and its fun. Maybe loosen the rules and just cap it at 10.50 or 10.90 is as fast as you can go, and run heads up?"


Well, rules are a way to put a cap on et, at least for a short period of time until someone maximizes a combination. This is why we should not allow 9 sec parts in a 10 sec class.

Let me know of any other way to cap the cars at 10.5 to 10.9. Maybe slic? Even some of them are on 9 sec capable cars.

Yes, it will be a heads up class by the way.

I would like to make an average street car class, for the 12 to mid 10 cars, but everybody's cars are so much different that it makes rules ( a cap ) a very difficult hurdle.
If this is the goal how about just a turbo limit and weight limit everything else fair game.inmo most street gns also weigh a lot more with driver and the minimum weight should be brought up to around 3650 to 3700lbs.these cars don't go anywhere without the turbo
 

RANDALL

Banned
Nov 20, 2010
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...TAI has like 5 rules and its fun. Maybe loosen the rules and just cap it at 10.50 or 10.90 is as fast as you can go, and run heads up?"
You got it... TAI... 5 rules and fun... the same logic should be applied...

Why the debate over turbo size or 9 second parts? Because you bolt on the potential doesn't mean you have a 9 sec car.

To clarify/contrary to other posts/threads... Index is "heads up", not handicapped. What does it matter if you have 9 sec capability due to minimal rules? If you run faster than 10.50 (say) you "load up". Driver/tune/track comes into BIG play. Index opens the door for many, many cars to participate. Most build a car to suit personal preference/performance goals, why shut out the majority of TBs/TTAs? There is already a venue for TB/TTA class racers, all other major sanctioning bodies offer Index racing i.e.; NHRA, IHRA, NMCA...
 
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Kip

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Why the debate over turbo size or 9 second parts? Because you bolt on the potential on doesn't mean you have a 9 sec car.
..

You hit the nail on the head. For those who have spoke up and said it is a 9 second class ( even though it has never been run) name 3 people who have gone 9s with their cars who would fit these rules.
 
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