Ta downpipe PUCK froze up

[313badbuick]

I have had the same issue with my TA 3.5 pipe.....And after having been around building and driving many of these cars over the years I have a pre-drive mental check-list of things I look at every time my car comes out of the garage to be driven......one of these pre check items is to put a 17mm open end wrench on the flat part of the swing linkage on the puck assembly and rotate it through its range of movement.....this is how I found mine as the effort needed to move the valve had gotten much more so than it had been.

The problem with the waste gate puck assembly is the clearance between the pivot shaft and the
bushing in the DP is too tight which feels fine when the pipe is new and clean and has not been heat cycled...
so when the repair is made you really need to open up the hole size in the bushing about .003-.004 thousands
so the pivoting mechanism can swing freely over time......This is important to do.

So I got the repair kit from TA to make the repair and the work is pretty straight forward and a bit of PITA to remove
the old valve but again not a huge deal......Now the replacement valve assembly is slightly different from
the original valve assembly in the fact that it raises the puck assembly up higher in the flange......so now there is a new problem with the puck assembly raised up....at the bottom of my wastegate hole in the turbine housing the
puck no longer covers it with enough overlap that I am sure it is going to leak and create spool up issues....

So now we have to get a piece of stainless and machine it on the lathe to be a press fit over the new puck valve
to increase its diameter so the raised puck will cover the hole with good overlap.
Once we were satisfied with the fitment we tig welded the ring onto the new puck assembly......
opened up the hole in the bushing for more clearance and then reinstalled the pipe and reset the boost.

My wastgate hole size was only .950" to begin with so its not like the hole was ported improperly,
And it was a good bit of work by the time it was all done. The kit I got from TA used a square drive on the
flat arm to the round shaft which is held on by a threaded button head bolt. I did have to pay for repair kit which
I felt they should cover....my pipe only had 3-400 miles on it but It did not not get installed right way after the
initial purchase so I was past any warranty time frame and I get that.

SO make sure to open the bushing hole size up, double check the puck to WG hole position, and develop
your own pre-flight check list which includes stroking the WG arm assembly. HTH, FBR

RJC-WGA. This complete waste gate assembly is now available separately. We make this assembly for most of the Turbo Regal parts distributors that are now making down pipes. 100% 304 Stainless and features either a 1.375″ or a 1.625″ puck. More than enough for a low 9 second TR. All that is required to install this new assembly is a 1/2″ hole in the WG flange and one weld. We have personally run 9.21 @ 148 with this puck and a 7168 CEA Precision turbo in our TSM car. We can adjust the boost from 15-30# with no issues.

#RJC-WGA | Waste Gate Assembly | Price; $55.00

 

[marleyskater420]

I have dealt with some jerks on this board over the years, and you are most certainly one of them?

I did not make the TA pipe, I did not sell the pipe, I was just helping a fellow Buick owner, so why the hell do you need to put your crap out here, and tell me to fix any damage?

Go back to the planet you came from, and take your load of crap with you.

I would like to politely preface my question by stating that I understand you did not create or design the TA pipe..

In your professional experience Nick (and I do not mean this facetiously, I remember you on the boards 11yrs ago when I first joined, so I have high respect for you) are there other DPs that tend to have the puck freeze on them as well?

Do you have any personal experience with the RJC-style DP flanges? If so, may I please inquire as to your thoughts on the part?

EDIT:

Go to a quality external gate plumbed off the header before the turbo flange and these problems magically disappear. Not that an external can't fail but there is a lot of r&d in the Tial and Turbosmart product. The construction resists seizing. The boost will be more linear, there's potential power to be had with these, configuring a quality boost controller will really open up the suspension tuning window


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Could you please elaborate a bit on the suspension tuning window?

As someone slowly putting their car together and having heavily invested in the benefits of quality suspension pieces, your comment intrigues me.

I realize and will be the first to admit I do not know a lot, but I have come to be acclimated with the benefits and gains that a proper suspension setup can yield. I only wish I knew about Dave Morgan's classes when I was younger..and had more money

 

[bison]

I would like to politely preface my question by stating that I understand you did not create or design the TA pipe..

In your professional experience Nick (and I do not mean this facetiously, I remember you on the boards 11yrs ago when I first joined, so I have high respect for you) are there other DPs that tend to have the puck freeze on them as well?

Do you have any personal experience with the RJC-style DP flanges? If so, may I please inquire as to your thoughts on the part?

EDIT:



Could you please elaborate a bit on the suspension tuning window?

As someone slowly putting their car together and having heavily invested in the benefits of quality suspension pieces, your comment intrigues me.

I realize and will be the first to admit I do not know a lot, but I have come to be acclimated with the benefits and gains that a proper suspension setup can yield. I only wish I knew about Dave Morgan's classes when I was younger..and had more money

If you use ab external gate with a light spring you can use a boost controller with an increase/decrease and an external source of pressure and ramp in just about any way you want


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[LSTTYPE]

Like I said in my post, my Gbody down pipe puck would freeze and the boost spiked as well. Luckily I was on E85. Can't remember what we did to fix it.

 

[Nick Micale]

[QUOTE="marleyskater420, post: 3691864, member: 14364......"Do you have any personal experience with the RJC-style DP flanges? If so, may I please inquire as to your thoughts on the part?........ [/QUOTE]

Never heard of a RJC pipe with a puck sticking, and he has sold hundreds of them.

 

[BuickMike231]

I've had a TA 3" pipe on my car since 2008. Had it lock up on me twice since then. First time they told me it was a design flaw and that they changed the design of the bushing, mainly the material used. This was mentioned above. They repaired it and I had to pay shipping, nothing else, I felt that was fair. That repair lasted about a year and a half and it started sticking again. I called them and they wouldn't repair it again but sold me the two piece puck assembly as someone else mentioned. I opened up the hole slightly before installing that one and it's been pretty good since. I periodically check it for tightness as someone mentioned and hit it with WD-40 if it feels a bit tight. That's been working for me. It's my understanding even the Terry Houston pipes had this issue, I think it's just a common thing we need to be aware of. Does it suck? Sure...but these cars are far from low maintenance, so why would one more quick check hurt?

 

[~JM~]

How often does the puck seize on the OEM down pipe?

What are the design differences?

 

[bison]

How often does the puck seize on the OEM down pipe?

What are the design differences?

When the car sits under salt water. Design differences based on millions of miles of R&D of thousands of engineers.


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[turbo89]

When the car sits under salt water. Design differences based on millions of miles of R&D of thousands of engineers.


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IT doesn't take much R&D to have conclusive PASS/FAIL results on a DP ... the problem is when there is NO R&D and its put together by NON-ENGINEERS.

There are aftermarket downpipes that have gone over 100K miles without any binding or seizing at all .. and there are some that have seized in 500 miles .. clearly DESIGN issues
Just pass it on to the consumer .. after they buy it whats the difference they got their money .. unacceptable .

 

[bison]

IT doesn't take much R&D to have conclusive PASS/FAIL results on a DP ... the problem is when there is NO R&D and its put together by NON-ENGINEERS.

There are aftermarket downpipes that have gone over 100K miles without any binding or seizing at all .. and there are some that have seized in 500 miles .. clearly DESIGN issues
Just pass it on to the consumer .. after he buys it whats the difference they got their money .. unacceptable .

That's the common result with the price shopping of the consumer and glut of copies of quality parts on the market today. The old TH pipes didn't have this problem. Though they had some other issues at times. They were $500 back in the late 90's. With the cost of materials, labor and inflation of the dollar it's hard to imagine the same type of part could be produced for the same price it was almost 20 years ago. Several years back I approached a few people about these pipes and manufacturing them and bulk purchase. They would have been about $800 cost and retailed for close to $1000. Not one was interested! They wouldn't have these problems but oh well. You definitely get what you pay for


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[1KWIKSIX]

That's the common result with the price shopping of the consumer and glut of copies of quality parts on the market today. The old TH pipes didn't have this problem. Though they had some other issues at times. They were $500 back in the late 90's. With the cost of materials, labor and inflation of the dollar it's hard to imagine the same type of part could be produced for the same price it was almost 20 years ago. Several years back I approached a few people about these pipes and manufacturing them and bulk purchase. They would have been about $800 cost and retailed for close to $1000. Not one was interested! They wouldn't have these problems but oh well. You definitely get what you pay for


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I have to agree with you Bison..........
I've got an original Stainless Steel THDP which I bought used from another board member in California many years ago. Think I paid close to $500 for it too.
It's been installed and used on my car since 2007. Never had any issues with puck sticking, etc.
I was aware that internally gated ATR Down Pipes did have this problem, that why I kept searching until I found a THDP.

 

[V6POWER]

How difficult is it to remove and replace the bushing? I just purchased the RJC-WGA.

 

[hensleyt]

I just got TA part took me 20 min 15 of it to find my grinder

 

[V6POWER]

I just got TA part took me 20 min 15 of it to find my grinder

Is the bushing a 'press fit' and hard to r&r?

 

[1952ray]

Oh my, we, or should I say people are spending 10-15k on a good going to stay together engine and have no choice but to spend 500 dollars on a shit pipe! And I'm about too do the same thing. Oh no screw that. Not sure what the answer is, however it needs to be found. Yes I know you can go external but that's not always the answer. It seems to me that a pipe could be built without the gate freezing up that doesn't add a ton of cost. Think about this a pipe with a swinging gate $500, look at what $500 will buy for our high dollar cars. A scan master and PL. Oh hell to much to drink and a waste of my time and everybody who read this.

 

[turbo89]

Oh my, we, or should I say people are spending 10-15k on a good going to stay together engine and have no choice but to spend 500 dollars on a shit pipe! And I'm about too do the same thing. Oh no screw that. Not sure what the answer is, however it needs to be found. Yes I know you can go external but that's not always the answer. It seems to me that a pipe could be built without the gate freezing up that doesn't add a ton of cost. Think about this a pipe with a swinging gate $500, look at what $500 will buy for our high dollar cars. A scan master and PL. Oh hell to much to drink and a waste of my time and everybody who read this.

Internal is a Beancounter's solution ... External is a Engineer's solution ... there should be no question as to which Is a better solution

 

[hensleyt]

The bushing stayed in place. nothing wrong with it.
The key to the repair is the little washer on the shaft,the arm was digging in to the bushing,probably because of the boost actuator not lined up.
I cleaned the inside and outside of face and it works perfect.

 

[hensleyt]

A better pic where it was sticking

 

[V6POWER]

Thanks, hensleyt. The RJC assembly does not have the washer on the shaft, instead RJC tells you to "leave 1/16" end play on shaft for self cleaning." If I can find a washer to fit, I will probably add it.

 

[turbo89]

Thanks, hensleyt. The RJC assembly does not have the washer on the shaft, instead RJC tells you to "leave 1/16" end play on shaft for self cleaning." If I can find a washer to fit, I will probably add it.

I would do what RJC tells you unless you want to do your own R&D .. just sayin