TAI Class for 2008 BG Nationals

[Otto J]

Do you know where it is? My old car? I would love to have it back!! I"ll be in town this week.

I dont know if its your old one,Its in NJ.

 

[scot w.]

The rules the last two years NEVER limited the turbo size to 67mm!!! So why all the 67mm limit crap now? Is it just because the guys with the 67's want that class just for them? or is it so they don't have to change anything?

Answer this Russ or Grumpy! what's the big differance between a car that weighs 3550 with a 67 and a car that nearly weighs 3780 with a 70? I personally think that would be VERY CLOSE! Thats common sense. and your more than likely running way more boost than me cause I drive mine on a daily basis with just regular tires (NO D/R's)!

This is out of hand and maybe we should just hand out the winnings now and not have the class!

Crazy nit picking B/S.....

 

[scot w.]

I dont care about turbo size, or slicks.. if having 70 MM or 71 MM turbo's add 4 cars to the class.. then it adds more competition.

I agree 100%! this is supposed to be TAI (turbo alky injected) Orriginally meant to see what street cars on 93 pump gas and alky can run! who cares what turbo, boost, D/R's Blah, Blah. as long as it's a street car with full interior thats not gutted out, all engine components intact (not gutted)! who cares what the turbo size is. as long as it's the car that you drive on a daily basis on the street.. " run what you brung and hope you brung enough " !.

 

[Otto J]

Thing is,Yo dont want to make this a run what ya brung class.

 

[Grumpy]

Thing is,Yo dont want to make this a run what ya brung class.

that would open a can of worms ok ok ok I got it ... name the class Turbo Street Outlaw come on guys ... this is suppose to be fun ... now I am seeing what TSM goes threw when they post rules :wink:

 

[Grumpy]

dammitt !!! all the TSO guys want in they are all PM'm me ... welll NOT all ok ok we can't call it TSO :redface:

 

[JCotton]

It appears most of the posters here already have 66 and bigger turbos.... with that said, it would also appear we all want our combinations to be the guidelines.......that doesn't work. You have to ask yourself what kind of participation have you had in the past and if it was low.... WHY? Heads up is a blast, but heads up can also limit the cars that will participate. What 11.50 car is going to want to run a low 10 or 9 second car, for that matter, what 10.9,8 or7 second car would want to spot 7 10ths or more. If the goal is to build the class, you must take these facts into consideration.

1. Running a bracket class allows all of them to run, running heads up will eliminate particpation. Now that is fine when you are the faSTEST CAR to date.

2. Running 2 classes, heads up and brackett allows for the big boys to have their shot at glory and also allows for the lower budget cars to have their shot at bragging rights. Lets face it, we aren't in this for the money, if it's really about the fun and sport of it, then lets not talk out the side of our mouths. If this about ALCHY cars why eliminate the majority. Either form 2 classes or just run a bracket.

3. Either way, the rules are best to be configuered loosely and as minimal as possible. I'll address the engine management first, many cars have been stepping up to aftermarket engine management, be it translator, mafless, maxeffort, FAST, too many to list. They all allow for adjustability, period. There really is no such thing as a stock computor anymore. A stock computor is just that, burn a chip and you have what you have, it's a battle of the chip burners, those days are gone, all the chips are adjustable these days, cutting out FAST or any other adjustable set up just isn't realistic anymore.

4. Intercoolers, again, technology has run rampant, what differance does it make whether we use a front mount or a stock location, visually you have to strain to see which one is being used. There is no performance gain at this level when alchy is the real cooling additive to the air charge. Why would we want to make this a stock location IC class, many, many street cars have been using front mounts for years, I sell 4 to 1 front mounts over stock locations...

5. weights and turbo size aren't an issue if the class is a bracket class. As tires and many other possible arguing points become senseless.


Lastly, I'm beat, thats enough from me, for tonite..... tomorrows another day.

 

[Pablo]

Not that I plan on showing up but I think if you guys are gonna run an alky class it should be to showcase the technology. Only way to do that is heads up. A bracket class isn't going to demonstrate anything about alky injection.

As a fan on the sidelines I for one would like to see how far folks can take 2 M15 nozzles with 93 octane on the tank. There are still alky naysayers out there.. might as well shut them up.

btw, if you are in fact going to do that.. then there should be a limit on the methanol nozzle size, number of nozzles, and then, you would have to have some way of limiting the pressure. You know that someone is going to show up pushing 500 psi through 2 m15s and have barely any gasoline coming out of the injectors. Might as well run the car on methanol through the injectors at that point.

 

[Mr.Spool]

first off,it seems we have alot of good opinions on the topics.grumpy no need to apoligize for your position but just because you bracket it doesn't mean you have to hit the brakes.i think if there is an abudance of cars than having 2 classes makes alot of sense,but if tai is struggling to have a field then my suggestion is for a bracket class with an option for a heads up class pending the arrival of the field on race day.nothing wrong with keeping things flexable since tai is in it's early stages.keep in mind that this suggestion would eliminate the need and policeing of lot's of rules EVERYONE is begining to DISAGREE about.

 

[Grumpy]

well snow is moving in here tomorrow so the winter "blue's" are goin to follow :biggrin: I am not basing rules around our car .. Fast system's, front mounts who cares .. I just feel if ya limit the turbo to keep it a "street class" .. Ya want to go faster go to TSM or TSO trying to keep things simple.. maybe it just won't be as simple as that :frown: As far as seeing the limit of methonal look at Richie's white T !!! 9.5s @ 140++++ Is that the limit ??? I don't think so but I am not goin to find out either... Street cars rule well Ill sit back and let you guys hammer it out :biggrin:

 

[Grumpy]

ok one other thought they do in TSM... Maybe just keep the "talk" from people who are goin to BG to race in the class .. might make things easier I dunno

 

[Russ Merritt]

It appears most of the posters here already have 66 and bigger turbos.... with that said, it would also appear we all want our combinations to be the guidelines.......that doesn't work. You have to ask yourself what kind of participation have you had in the past and if it was low.... WHY? Heads up is a blast, but heads up can also limit the cars that will participate. What 11.50 car is going to want to run a low 10 or 9 second car, for that matter, what 10.9,8 or7 second car would want to spot 7 10ths or more. If the goal is to build the class, you must take these facts into consideration.

1. Running a bracket class allows all of them to run, running heads up will eliminate particpation. Now that is fine when you are the faSTEST CAR to date.

Runnin heads up will eliminate cars/drivers not capable of racing. In my opinion, quality cars are much better than quantity for the class. I know last year there were 3 cars and 1 missed the call. The year someone was actually running the class we had a bunch more, 11 I think was in 05. After all the alky cars that have been built by you, me and everyone else, I can't see the count not going up. Are you going to race the pumpkin in this class now? If not, your input would be better trying to get brackets into TSO........ Goodluck!

This will be for money! I myself will donate to the cause and I know Otto knows how to drum up money. Are you putting up $ for this class now that you've built a bunch of these alky cars? There will be good $ for the winner/runner up if this is set up for real heads up racing.

Any computer goes as far as I'm concered.

Any intercooler goes too in my opinion. Doesn't matter.





.

 

[scot w.]

.. I just feel if ya limit the turbo to keep it a "street class" ..

The problem here is WHO's TO SAY WHAT TURBO IS FOR THE STREET? Just because of the turbo I have and drive more on the street than you I'm not going to be able to run in a street car class? That is Bullsh*t! I plan on attending this year just like I have all the years before but from all the years of going it always seems like everyone whines about something. Like Your doing about a turbo and TSM. Just because it's the turbo used in TSM don't mean that my car could even come close to competing with the other car with $5,000 titanium rods and all the stage two stuff don't forget that most TSM cars have stage motors...

Whatever! If the rules end up limiting the class to a 67mm turbo, Good luck! I'm not going to spend the extra money just to run your class.....

 

[JCotton]

Runnin heads up will eliminate cars/drivers not capable of racing. In my opinion, quality cars are much better than quantity for the class. I know last year there were 3 cars and 1 missed the call. The year someone was actually running the class we had a bunch more, 11 I think was in 05. After all the alky cars that have been built by you, me and everyone else, I can't see the count not going up. Are you going to race the pumpkin in this class now? If not, your input would be better trying to get brackets into TSO........ Goodluck!

This will be for money! I myself will donate to the cause and I know Otto knows how to drum up money. Are you putting up $ for this class now that you've built a bunch of these alky cars? There will be good $ for the winner/runner up if this is set up for real heads up racing.

Any computer goes as far as I'm concered.

Any intercooler goes too in my opinion. Doesn't matter.
.

First off, get off the TSO kick, has nothing to do with this thread. Secondly, you talk like you are the big time heads up racer, continually putting down your average Buick racer\like they don't count or can't race, maybe you can share your vast experience with us. Russ, don't try to turn this into a pissing contest, it's a rules discussion.. This class is not around you, me, dan or anyone else, unless I am missing something here... share your suggestions and get off the personal garbage. As for Sponsorship, don't talk to me about sponsorship.......... I've sponsored more classes, put up more money, gave back more to my customers and the general Buick community than you will ever do....... don't even try to twist this thread up into a pissing contest and attempt to put me on the hot seat while trying to sit on the throne with statements of self promotion by bringing in sponsorship.

Your statements here are way off base and an embarressment in this thread. Stick to the rules and all will go well.

 

[Russ Merritt]

It appears most of the posters here already have 66 and bigger turbos.... with that said, it would also appear we all want our combinations to be the guidelines.......that doesn't work. You have to ask yourself what kind of participation have you had in the past and if it was low.... WHY? Heads up is a blast, but heads up can also limit the cars that will participate. What 11.50 car is going to want to run a low 10 or 9 second car, for that matter, what 10.9,8 or7 second car would want to spot 7 10ths or more. If the goal is to build the class, you must take these facts into consideration.

1. Running a bracket class allows all of them to run, running heads up will eliminate particpation. Now that is fine when you are the faSTEST CAR to date.

2. Running 2 classes, heads up and brackett allows for the big boys to have their shot at glory and also allows for the lower budget cars to have their shot at bragging rights. Lets face it, we aren't in this for the money, if it's really about the fun and sport of it, then lets not talk out the side of our mouths. If this about ALCHY cars why eliminate the majority. Either form 2 classes or just run a bracket.

3. Either way, the rules are best to be configuered loosely and as minimal as possible. I'll address the engine management first, many cars have been stepping up to aftermarket engine management, be it translator, mafless, maxeffort, FAST, too many to list. They all allow for adjustability, period. There really is no such thing as a stock computor anymore. A stock computor is just that, burn a chip and you have what you have, it's a battle of the chip burners, those days are gone, all the chips are adjustable these days, cutting out FAST or any other adjustable set up just isn't realistic anymore.

4. Intercoolers, again, technology has run rampant, what differance does it make whether we use a front mount or a stock location, visually you have to strain to see which one is being used. There is no performance gain at this level when alchy is the real cooling additive to the air charge. Why would we want to make this a stock location IC class, many, many street cars have been using front mounts for years, I sell 4 to 1 front mounts over stock locations...

5. weights and turbo size aren't an issue if the class is a bracket class. As tires and many other possible arguing points become senseless.


Lastly, I'm beat, thats enough from me, for tonite..... tomorrows another day.

Not a pissin contest Jacko, If your not racin in TAI, what the hell are you doing here???? We def don't need you to figure this out. Stickin your 2 cents in where it don't belong is what I see.......

I know you've sponsered lots in the past. Hats off to you, that's great! I'm gonna start doing it too if we're gonna race heads up. Nothin but good coming from this.

 

[JCotton]

Not a pissin contest Jacko, If your not racin in TAI, what the hell are you doing here???? We def don't need you to figure this out. Stickin your 2 cents in where it don't belong is what I see.......

I know you've sponsered lots in the past. Hats off to you, that's great! I'm gonna start doing it too if we're gonna race heads up. Nothin but good coming from this.

Ahhhhhh helllloo RussO.......... try waking up and smelling the roses, step away from the mirror...... anything to get off your narrow, one directional thinking here. I'm not posting in this thread to run TSO.......... maybe you can figure it out now..... I'm here to discuss class rules that I will be participating in..... is that clear enough for you.....

As for turbo rules, if we are looking to have an upper "tier" anything should go, lots of 70P trim turbos on street cars..... no reason to limit this to a 67 limit. Maybe we run qualifying for all, take the top 8 cars and put them into a Quick 8, heads up class, the rest can run a Brackett with a pro tree.... rules can be loose and bickering can end right here... right now..

 

[Russ Merritt]

Ahhhhhh helllloo RussO.......... try waking up and smelling the roses, step away from the mirror...... anything to get off your narrow, one directional thinking here. I'm not posting in this thread to run TSO.......... maybe you can figure it out now..... I'm here to discuss class rules that I will be participating in..... is that clear enough for you.....

As for turbo rules, if we are looking to have an upper "tier" anything should go, lots of 70P trim turbos on street cars..... no reason to limit this to a 67 limit. Maybe we run qualifying for all, take the top 8 cars and put them into a Quick 8, heads up class, the rest can run a Brackett with a pro tree.... rules can be loose and bickering can end right here... right now..

Yea, sure you are.....

Wide awake and workin hard Cotton balls....... Probably why I missed your racing in this class now...... I'll be pretty surprised you show up in BG with a TAI car instead of TSO.......

Whatever the largest legal turbo is is what I'll run.

 

[scot w.]

Ahhhhhh helllloo RussO.......... try waking up and smelling the roses, step away from the mirror...... anything to get off your narrow, one directional thinking here. I'm not posting in this thread to run TSO.......... maybe you can figure it out now..... I'm here to discuss class rules that I will be participating in..... is that clear enough for you.....

As for turbo rules, if we are looking to have an upper "tier" anything should go, lots of 70P trim turbos on street cars..... no reason to limit this to a 67 limit. Maybe we run qualifying for all, take the top 8 cars and put them into a Quick 8, heads up class, the rest can run a Brackett with a pro tree.... rules can be loose and bickering can end right here... right now..

Jack that has been the best idea so far!! a fine example of making things work for all the others and not just putting them out!... Good Idea!

 

[scot w.]

Yea, sure you are.....

Wide awake and workin hard Cotton balls....... Probably why I missed your racing in this class now...... I'll be pretty surprised you show up in BG with a TAI car instead of TSO.......

Whatever the largest legal turbo is is what I'll run.

Russ there NEVER was a "largest legal turbo limit" so I have no idea where this limit talk is coming from. to this date there still is NO LIMIT. I went back and looked at all the rules for the past years. let me know if i'm missing something here.

 

[Quiky One]

well snow is moving in here tomorrow so the winter "blue's" are goin to follow :biggrin: I am not basing rules around our car .. Fast system's, front mounts who cares .. I just feel if ya limit the turbo to keep it a "street class" .. Ya want to go faster go to TSM or TSO trying to keep things simple.. maybe it just won't be as simple as that :frown: As far as seeing the limit of methonal look at Richie's white T !!! 9.5s @ 140++++ Is that the limit ??? I don't think so but I am not goin to find out either... Street cars rule well Ill sit back and let you guys hammer it out :biggrin:

Richie doesn't run 93 octane either. He might be able to run that number on 93 but he hasn't. And as you know coulda should woulda right?? :tongue: