TAI Class for 2008 BG Nationals

[TURBO 6]

Here's my opinion. I do plan on running this class by the way.

Same weight as TSM, 67mm turbo (BB or reg.) 93 octane witnessed by the field, drag radials, stock gas tank, stock ignition, 2004r or OD tranny, heads up. That's the way it should be. If you don't limit the turbo you're gonna take away the idea of running pump gas. They'll be TSM cars getting in line to hand the little guys their a$$.

 

[SGRIM]

Just a little question. What is the fastest anyone has gone on pump gas spraying alcohol reguardless of turbo size?

We would like to field car a in this, but if things go right we will be running other cars... But IMO heads up, there is enough bracket racing already.....

 

[Alky V6]

I don't know why everyone is so against a form of bracket racing. Look at PSCA. It started out gang busters as far as attendance and now after a few years, you can identify the few players that are expected to win at each event. Heads up racing will always be a deep pockets proposition. Who can afford the best internals. Who can afford the best engine builder. Who can afford the best tuner. Who can cheat on the rules the best. Who can hide the nitrous the best.
Look at Pinks All Out. You guys need to pay attention to why this grass roots show has become so dang popular. It's run what you brung and a form of bracket racing. Bracket racing levels the playing field.
A pump gas and alcohol injection class sounds to me like a budget racing idea. Don't make the racer have to pay for expensive gas. Make the rules so that a lot of stock components have to be used. The trouble is, heads up racing and budget racing don't mix. There's a reason why bracket racing is so popular in this country. If you want attedance, you better take a clue from other venues.
If it's that dang important for the top dogs to show off that they're the fastest, why not have an award for quickest qualifier and have the main eliminations just be some form of brackets without the freakin rules that keep the vast majority of us from participating.

 

[SGRIM]

I agree with you Don. But I also think Bracket Racing takes alot of the car and innovation out of the equation. In a small group like this the best driver is going to win everytime too... Just too easy to take a 10.0 car and dail in a 11.0 and pedal to the win IMO!

 

[Alky V6]

I agree with you Don. But I also think Bracket Racing takes alot of the car and innovation out of the equation. In a small group like this the best driver is going to win everytime too... Just too easy to take a 10.0 car and dail in a 11.0 and pedal to the win IMO!

This would be the beauty of having a turbo bracket class. Cheap for all the contestants (run what you brung), We'll see innovation up the ying yang, because of no rule restrictions, and we'll see who and how to make a turbo car consistant in a bracket race. Usually, the more complicated the machine, the less consistant it is. At my home track, there is a bracket racer who is becoming nationally known for his driving and tuning skills and I have seen this for years. It is always the guy driving the stock car that takes it all. You can't get any cheaper than that.
Pedaling a turbo car is not going to be an easy feat. And besides, put a rule in that specifies disqualification for sand bagging. Just like Pinks All Out. Com'on guys. There are a lot of people that want to participate here. Heads up racing will consist of the elite few. Is that what you want?

 

[scot w.]

Here's my opinion. I do plan on running this class by the way.

Same weight as TSM, 67mm turbo (BB or reg.) 93 octane witnessed by the field, drag radials, stock gas tank, stock ignition, 2004r or OD tranny, heads up.

**That all sounds fair! also include the A/C inplace, Full stock interior.

If you don't limit the turbo you're gonna take away the idea of running pump gas. They'll be TSM cars getting in line to hand the little guys their a$$.

Here is where I disagree! Just because the turbo is one size larger and is a TSM turbo does NOT mean it will take away the idea of pump gas!!! and I highly doupt that the TSM guys with there gutted engine bay's, stage II engines, innovate boost controllers, stock seats removed (and i'm sure there's more) would be running in this class handing our as*...

** THE WHOLE PURPOSE FOR THIS CLASS FROM THE VERY BEGINNG WAS TO SEE WHAT KIND OF PERFORMANCE CAN BE MADE WITH 93 PUMP GAS & ALKY ON A STREET CAR!!!! The key words there are "STREET CAR" with that said It should be left as just that. meaning everything still in place AS A STREET CAR WITH ALL METAL PANELS!!! Weight shouldn't play in this at all if it is keep as stated above.. I agree with having several classes so EVERYONE can enjoy this class and show what can be done with alot of combo's. Let's the people in the stands actually see that they can take there car and actually do that to without having any special parts or removing parts.

I think if this continues you won't see this class go far at all and that would be a shame.

 

[Alky V6]

I can't believe you just wrote that you think we wouldn't see any innovation. Make it to where I can bring my car and I'll show you innovation.

 

[SGRIM]

This would be the beauty of having a turbo bracket class. Cheap for all the contestants (run what you brung), We'll see innovation up the ying yang, because of no rule restrictions, and we'll see who and how to make a turbo car consistant in a bracket race. Usually, the more complicated the machine, the less consistant it is. At my home track, there is a bracket racer who is becoming nationally known for his driving and tuning skills and I have seen this for years. It is always the guy driving the stock car that takes it all. You can't get any cheaper than that.
Pedally a turbo car is not going to be an easy feat. And besides, put a rule in that specifies disqualification for sand bagging. Just like Pinks All Out. Com'on guys. There are a lot of people that want to participate here. Heads up racing will consist of the elite few. Is that what you want?

I completley see your point and agree for the most part. If the sandbagging could be monitored...

 

[Alky V6]

Look. People that have started to use alcohol with pump gas instead of the expense of racing gas are going to continue to do that regardless of the form of racing. Bottom line, they're trying to save money. Do you really think that because the racing form is bracket racing that people will stop using pump gas and alcohol? Or is it that someone just wants to showcase alcohol injection kits. Even in a bracket atmosphere, people are going to see what everyone else is doing and if they see something that's going to save on their racing budget, they're going to switch over to it. Especially, the grass roots racer. And with the more participants at the event, because you're not excluding them with rules or they don't feel they have a chance against the big dogs, there is more marketing potential for the equipment manufacturers. Use your heads guys. Big crowds means big money.

 

[Alky V6]

Again! If it's that important for the big dogs to be showcased, have a special award and hooplah for the top qualifier(s). Then allow them to set whatever dial in they choose for the main eliminations. That way, everyone has it out of their system as to who is the fastest and bitchinest.:biggrin:

I might add an award for best engineered also. That will get some innovative people's blood flowing.

In fact, I think I'm going to mention these ideas to the owners of my home track.

 

[Alky V6]

Now if this class racing is meant to exclude people that don't meet a particular marketing profile, then you've succeeded in eliminating me.

 

[scot w.]

I can't believe you just wrote that you think we wouldn't see any innovation. Make it to where I can bring my car and I'll show you innovation.

Don I don't think that was mentioned at all. I don't know what your talking about!

 

[Alky V6]

I agree with you Don. But I also think Bracket Racing takes alot of the car and innovation out of the equation. In a small group like this the best driver is going to win everytime too... Just too easy to take a 10.0 car and dail in a 11.0 and pedal to the win IMO!

At my home track, we do nothing but bracket racing and if you bother to take a walk through the pits and look at other peoples cars, you will see nothing but innovation.

Sure, the person with the stock or nearly stock car seems to always take the prize, but that doesn't seem to keep others from building the car of their dreams and showing it off at the track. What better way of increasing attendance. Show the small guy that he has a chance to take it all.

Again. I would love to see a turbo only bracket class. It will force people to find a way to make our turbo cars consistent. If that can be done, then we can start infiltrating other bracket venues throughout the country and get the turbo Buick back on top. If the Buicks can gain back popularity, more parts will ultimately be sold. If more parts are sold, more companies enter into the market to offer parts and services. The more companies involved in trying to get our business, the cheaper the parts. Simple really.

Look at the big picture.

 

[scot w.]

AHHH I see!

 

[JayC]

Maybe you guys should have had someone that has no vested interest in this class do the rules. Everyone wants the rules around their own car.. thats how its always been.. just ask Red.

 

[Alky V6]

Maybe you guys should have had someone that has no vested interest in this class do the rules. Everyone wants the rules around their own car.. thats how its always been.. just ask Red.

Bracet racing eliminates that problem too!!!

Just have vendors setup tents to show off their products. A manufacturers midway.

Having a class centered around a particular product is so obvious, it makes me sick. What do these companies take us for. Lemmings?

I'm glad you brought up that point. For that reason alone, I'm completely turned off to class racing. Anyone with enough clout to start a class makes off like a bandit. Which brings up another point. How much money is changing hands behind the scenes to make sure a particular product is included in the class rules? Which further shows that class racing is for the elite. How many can afford to keep changing components every year because a new/better turbo or torque converter or heads or intercooler, whatever, is now going to be allowed in the new rules. Not many.

I tell you bracket racing eliminates all that crapola.

 

[JayC]

I dont really agree with that. Just because there is one kit everyone seems to gravitate to doesnt mean there arent others out there people could use.

 

[Alky V6]

Instead of so much energy being used to decide what part or fuel can or cannot be used, put the creative energy towards some new and innovative rules for brackets. Take some lessons from Pinks All Out. Don't force racers to have to spend money on new parts so they can race. Doesn't sound budget to me.

 

[Alky V6]

I dont really agree with that. Just because there is one kit everyone seems to gravitate to doesnt mean there arent others out there people could use.

My meaning was general. I'm not trying to pick on any one manufacturer. I hope you get my point.

 

[Alky V6]

A fine example of how class racing eliminates the vast majority. Why aren't there any turbos in the NHRA Pro Stock class?

It simple and very ugly. It's mainly because of the manufacturers that are in power with their sponsorship money. If EFI were allowed, what would happen to all the carb manufacturers. Carb manufacturers and others have the clout to make dang sure their money tree stays intact.

That is the TRUE and ugly side of class racing.