The limit of the Stock Rear...

[turbocliff]

I had posted here several months ago asking about what 60' times should new axles and building up the rear become a concern. In my last WE4, I went consistant 1.53s without any problems, and so I wasn't worried in my 87GN, cause my best to date was 1.57, that was until yesterday. My car has entirely stock suspension, less the front sway bar, and 90/10 lakewood shocks in front. I added air bags in both sides, and installed a brand new set of 28X10.5 slicks (I had 29.5 X 9 previously) and headed out to Byron. My first pass I went 1.522 but the car was still leaning over to the pass side, so we added a few pounds to the pass air bag (around 18psi) and left the driver's side @ 5psi. Next pass, 1.525, but car left with a little less boost 10, instead of 12, but left alot straighter, so we left the car the same. Third pass, went 1.50 @ 12 psi launch At this point I had made some comments about building up the rear end, ect. Next pass, was about to launch @ 15psi, and, SNAP!!!

I was fun, and I was laughing when I got out of the car, and was trying to tell the track official that his track didn't hook! LOL

This was all foot brake launches, which I always believed would never break a rear.... Now I know better-

Cliff

 

[lazaris]

Yeah I have to laugh when I see posts about guys running 8's with the "stock' rear...........

 

[turbo2nr]

Cal Hartline has a stock ring&pinion, but 33spline axels. He now uses a spool, but still the 8.5" and stock gears! 8sec.

 

[lazaris]

LOL

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

why is it funny to here about 8.5 10 bolts in the 8's ?

I know two 7 sec cars (not turbo buicks) with 8.5 10 bolts in them ...yeah they have good prts in them tho

 

[lazaris]

Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR
why is it funny to here about 8.5 10 bolts in the 8's ?

I know two 7 sec cars (not turbo buicks) with 8.5 10 bolts in them ...yeah they have good prts in them tho

Well after reading the first post and judging the 60's I dont think its a 8 sec car and he broke it. I have also seen a few cars running alot slower breaking them and or bending the axel tubes as well. I chucked at the 8's because it seems like the minoritynot the majority from what I have observed. If you read my post I said stock rear in quotes. Now if you add good axels which necessitates a new carrier and or a spool, back brace it or add reinforcement bars to the axels tubes, use a reinforcement cover etc etc to make it work in the 8's on a consistant basis and it does great. By the time you add it up with labor your just about at what you can get a good aftermarket rear for but still have the stock gears which become the next weak link. Thats my opinion.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

I was just trying to understand what you meant

class racers like the cars I mentioned before are trying to get all the can ...smallestrear that will hold up = more hp to the ground

I do believe once you get to low 1.5 60 fts its time to start thinking about the rear .. atleast better axles

I know plenty do better on bone stock rears .. I have made high 1.4's on mine and its factory stock with over 190,000 miles on it

 

[lazaris]

I hear ya. How many 1.4 short times on it? Check your axel tubes they tend to bend forward.

 

[HighPSI]

Laugh all you want. I have the stock rear with these modifications:

33 spline axles
Strange 33 spline spool
T/A cover

I have gone a 1.30 60' without the axle tubes welded or any brace other than the T/A Cover. Perhaps my axle tubes are bent, I don't know (they still don't leak and the car goes straight)

Not very expensive IMO.

FWIW: My buddies Nova has gone 8.4's@169 on drag radials with a 35 spline 10 bolt.

 

[lazaris]

Originally posted by HighPSI
Laugh all you want. I have the stock rear with these modifications:

33 spline axles
Strange 33 spline spool
T/A cover

I have gone a 1.30 60' without the axle tubes welded or any brace other than the T/A Cover. Perhaps my axle tubes are bent, I don't know (they still don't leak and the car goes straight)

Not very expensive IMO.

FWIW: My buddies Nova has gone 8.4's@169 on drag radials with a 35 spline 10 bolt.

Cal,

I think you misinterpreting my "laugh". I'm not laughing sarcastically, I'm doing so in surprise that some people and yourself are having such good luck at that power level. I hope you still continue to do so.
I guess its similar to using billet internals in the trans. Some people do not use them and dont break.

 

[HighPSI]

My apoligies. I thought you didn't believe me

To be honest, I am suprised at how strong the stock rear is. I can't remember the last time I saw one break (besides axles)

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Turbocliff

Did you ever find out what broke?

All you should need is good stock replacement axles or maybe a carrier of your choice with a higher spline count. I had a lot of high 1.4-low 1.5 short times on my factory rear before it let go. I tried leaving too hard on a mild track and the car tire hopped and sheared 5 gears off the ring gear. No street gear will take that abuse. I just put some 3.42's from jeg's back in it and never had any more trouble. Best 60' was a 1.43

And Cal's 1.30 60' was probably tripped on the back tires.

 

[Louie L.]

There were 2 ring gear failures in TSM this year. I was thinking of doing somethind about mine untill i found that there were no pro or racing gears for the 8.5. From Dustys experience and others Ive heard the trick is to just put in a new fresh set that hasnt been hammered on for 14 yrs! I will be doing this soon.

 

[turbocliff]

Dusty- I have already replaced the sheared axle, and it was broken about 1/2" past the splines inside the axle tube. I inspected the other for damage or stretching, and it appeared OK. I am going to order Moser c-clip 31 spline axles, and the 31 spline spool. Later I may install the TA girdle as well, but I should be fine with this set up since the quickest 60' I expect would be high 1.4s

-Cliff

 

[lazaris]

Originally posted by Louie L.
There were 2 ring gear failures in TSM this year. I was thinking of doing somethind about mine untill i found that there were no pro or racing gears for the 8.5. From Dustys experience and others Ive heard the trick is to just put in a new fresh set that hasnt been hammered on for 14 yrs! I will be doing this soon.

I've posted before, that after all the upgrades the ring and pinion become the the achilies heel for the 8.5 on a fast heavy car.

 

[turbocliff]

Well, with the addition of another stock axle (thanks to Dr. Boost) I went back to the track, and despite trying not to launch as hard as I did when I broke, I pulled a 1.47 60'- Didn't brake yet! lol

I had even added a couple pounds of air pressure to promote a little spin (12psi), but It hooked apparently-

I will build up before next season- I swear!

 

[flip]

Originally posted by turbocliff
Well, with the addition of another stock axle (thanks to Dr. Boost) I went back to the track, and despite trying not to launch as hard as I did when I broke, I pulled a 1.47 60'- Didn't brake yet! lol

I had even added a couple pounds of air pressure to promote a little spin (12psi), but It hooked apparently-

I will build up before next season- I swear!

christmas is comming you better not be telling lies cliff

 

[turbocliff]

LOL- yea you know whats on my letter to Santa!

 

[1320n10]

I went 1.39 60' with just stock replacment moser axles. Shortly after that i broke the ring pinion and carrier It had a hole in the cover about 3/4 inch round. Still dont know what came out there. It now has 35 spline mark williams axles spool c-clip eliminators billet yoke richmond gears ta cover and the housing was straighened and welded.

 

[MAX PSI]

I just broke a 9" f-rd ring gear. I sheared 7 teeth off it. I was using a locker with a street gear. The slop that is built into a locker is what I think caused it to break. When the lash is suddenally taken up like on a launch, something is going to break. I'm suprised it wasn't an axle. This time it is going back together with a pro gear and a spool.


So Louie that makes three TSM cars that broke ring gears.