The Numbers Game with the (SPI) Trunk ID Label - Kirban

[Boostnitup]

96 option code - 1984 Grand National

 

[Dennis Kirban]

OK another question about my '87 GN (November '86 built). Is it unusual to have the letter "X" as the 9th character in the VIN number? I have read that the X is a "place holder"?

Mine has the 9th character "X"; Another member asked me if this was true a few months back when I first joined the board and posted pics of my car.

Here are a couple pics- the dash VIN plate pic sucks but you can still clearly see the "X" character.

John

kirban 2 cents worth

As per your question on the X the definition for the digit in the GM Production Options books is "check digit" That 9th digit is pretty consistent listed in later years etc as check digit. It is not always an X either.

All my GM production booklets gives a definition for every other digit 1 thru 8 but nothing for 9 except stating "check digit" the rest being your production sequence.

Since no definition is given for the 9th code, it is probably something that is not very important in determining factors about your car.

Will do breakdown in next post

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

 

[QWKRNU1009]

Hey Dennis, here is the trunk i.d. label on my 87 Turbo T dark blue metallic. I'm the second owner, this car has been an Alabama car it's entire life.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

Follow up: The last 6 digits which follow the last "letter code" is the production sequence.

Intersting enough and you can clearly see it on the 1984 trunk ID label above the letter cod prior to the last 6 digits is "H"

That code is for the plant it was built in. H in this case means Flint. Most cars at least 1986-1987s and I know 1987s for sure will have a P for Pontiac plant. partially built in Flint that finished up in Pontiac.

In the case of our Turbo Regals 99% certain the letter code prior to the production sequence will read H or P. Unlike cars of old such as the GTO which was produced in over a dozen different plants in the US. With GM shrinking quickly, even less plants will be around in a few years.

So working backwards I have covered the last 7 digits.

Next one working backwards corresponds to the model year. H is for 1987. Granted, H in the alphabet is the 8th letter not 7. Again I don't know the reason unless they skip A? Only going by what is in the books. The 1984 shown above you see the letter E again E is the 5th letter from what I remember but the car is a 1984.

I don't know all the answers...but I do know my alphabet!

The next digit simply states "check digit" No other explanation shows up to explain that digit in any of my Buick material.

Again still working backwards the next digit is critical to any Turbo owner it is the engine code. This is how an insurance company can determine you have a turbo regal instead of grand ma's V6 just from the VIN number.

Better hope you got a 7 in that spot if you have a 1987 turbo car. Code 9 according to my books should be present for the 1984-85 vintage.

What is strange is for 1986 I show either code 9 or 7 being correct for 3.8 sfi engines in my 44 W book. I always thought 1986 was engine code 7 as well since engine was the same as 1987 versions.

Spot 7 in 1987 is for body restraint systems prior years its related to the body type. Spot or digit 6 is for body type all 1987 cars are 2 door coupe/sedan code is .

The 4th and 5th digit are related car line and car line series 1987s will read GJ G under Buick for Regal and J for Regal. If you have a 1987 Turbo T Limited it should read G for Regal and M for Regal Limited.

The first 3 digits are consistent for all 1984-1987 Turbo regals will read 1G4 which stands for Buick passenger car.

Obviousily you want to make sure your 17 digit VN number on your dash matches up to the trunk ID label. Then make sure that matches to the VIN on your title.

You can see how some of the codes are redundant or don't make sense even to me. My experience is 1987 so its the 1G4GJ for Regal and 1G4GM for Limited model. In 1986 their was no turbo Liimteds so it should read 1G4GK instead of 1G4GJ which is 1987 only for a turbo Regal. K is for 1986.

They also used a K for the Turbo Regal for 1984 and 1985 as show in the 1984 trunk ID label above as the 5th digit on the VIN. Why it changed from a K to a J for 1987 I have no idea.

Again I am working from several different Buick books trying to keep things straight and as accurate as possible.

Not sure when they went to the 17 digit VIN program but seems to be used by all car companies foreign as well. Back in the GTO days it was less than 17 digits and I am sure going way way back to the early 1930s and earlier probably was around 5 or 6 digits.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Oldest vehicle I used to own was a 1936 1/2 ton Chevy flat bed truck was used to carry burial vaults (not caskets the box the caskets would go in. Truck was still lettered with the burial vault company and town on it when I bought it abut 30 years ago. Had mechanic brakes, kinda like the powermaster brakes when the red lite goes on! No I don't member the VIN number but I am pretty sure it had far less than 17 digits. Neat truck......

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

Again looking at the 1984 trunk ID label above. Every 1984 I have seen that trunk ID label was positioned on the drivers side of the lid such as this. The sticker that shows behind it I have seen on several. Think it reads check lid checked. Maybe it means they got the gaps fairly even?

Lucky I have a 1984 price directory, has the lite weight aluminum bumper supports VD6 and VD7, you have the factory astroroof (CF5) cost then was just $895 later years jumped to $925. Do you have the hand crank for it?

Radio you have next to the top of the line UU7 had a $402 price tag. Speaker code U66 extended range (no concert sound) you have digital dash U52 code, you have front seat reading lamps C95, you had the good front and rear carpet savers B34 and B35 codes.

B93 factory door edge guards.

Take note: Notice how on the 1984 ID label they read in alphabetic order going across each line. On the 1987 labels they red DOWN each column. Without seeing 85-86 in front of me not sure which way they run. Plus has 14 columns shown above as opposed to 13 columns 1987 version.

You have as you realize a very loaded example, with 1984 being the first year of that body style etc, very rare to have sprung for the astroroof option as I doubt many were sold back then. Reason I state that is since it is the first year a prospective buyer would not have seen that option on othe rlike cars to decide that is what they wanted.

WG1 code is for power drivers seat. For some reason I can't find the code for your seats. I know its GN but I can't match a code for either Lear Siegler seats or the regular black/grey GN seats.

Advise as to what you have. It would be a code starting with the letter A. You have power trunk and doors (A90 and AU3 and A31 power windows).

Here is what is strange without knowing your seats. WG1 is for power you also have AC3 code which also means adjuster front seat. So I am thinking you may have Lear Siegler seats as they had a power option and knobs that would make bolster adjustments. This is a guess on my part.

A power Lear Siegler bucket seat is very rare. Actually odd looking when compared to the other power seat trim panels on regular bucket seats.

The other a code AQ9 refers to recliner. They are the definitions I have for those A codes. I show no A code to determine your seats. Example AR9 is the more common code I am familar with in the later years.

So, post a photo of your interior and if not tell me what seats are in your GN. You also have B48 the trunk kit option. Very loaded car....enoy

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Tough doing the 1984s since I am not familar with them.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents

on above 87 turbo-t alabama qwkrnu1009

when I do quote it does not show me your label to bounce back and forth so I gotta do it this way.

Your car is very similar to my 3rd test car which was the nice dark blue metallic wit the wo2 sport package.

You got posi G80, VD6 and VD7 lite weight bumper supports top of the line radio UX1 code for $504, concert sound II UW4 $95 option,

Car did not get any floor mats or trunk kit, did get T63 buzzer that headlites are on wow $16 expense there, US 6 fixed antenna good thing there...UA 6 theft deterrent $159 option so that means yo also got power door locks, code AU3.

Also got A31 power windows $210 option,

Always in Alabama explains why it does not have rear defogger....got power trunk release A90 $50 option.

You got tilt cruise, delay wipers.

That color with a black out package is a nice desireable combo blue almost looks black. Always liked that combo. No rust makes anyone in the northern areas jealous plus not having rear defogger lines in the rear glass gives the car a cleaner look.

Enjoy your ride....

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Mine came out of Florida mid 1990s.....one of many.

 

[QWKRNU1009]

Thanks Dennis, I have the dvd from when your son painted your car in like 7 seven days I think it was. That car was beautiful.

 

[turbofish38]

Excuse me if I step on your toes Dennis.

All my GM production booklets gives a definition for every other digit 1 thru 8 but nothing for 9 except stating "check digit" the rest being your production sequence.Since no definition is given for the 9th code, it is probably something that is not very important in determining factors about your car.

You are correct in that it's probably not important but there is a formula for how GM determined the check digit. I'll post it as soon as I can dig it up from my archives. BTW It could also be a letter A through Z minus a few like O,Q and I.

That code is for the plant it was built in. H in this case means Flint. Most cars at least 1986-1987s and I know 1987s for sure will have a P for Pontiac plant. partially built in Flint that finished up in Pontiac.

The tubs of our cars were built by Fisher Body at the Buick City facility in Flint and trucked south down to the Pontiac MI plant for final assembly. This was true for even the Hot Air cars built in Flint although most of the time the Fisher Body facility was in the same plant as the GMAD facility. Fisher built the bodies and GMAD or General Motors Assembly Division did the final assembly. These are evident in the two SPID label codes FFL=Fisher Body Flint and GMD. As far as I know the Pontiac plant was the only G-Body plant that did not have an on site Fisher Body facility. Which is why you don't see the GMD code on any SPID that has the PON code.

You can see how some of the codes are redundant or don't make sense even to me. My experience is 1987 so its the 1G4GJ for Regal and 1G4GM for Limited model. In 1986 their was no turbo Liimteds so it should read 1G4GK instead of 1G4GJ which is 1987 only for a turbo Regal. K is for 1986.They also used a K for the Turbo Regal for 1984 and 1985 as show in the 1984 trunk ID label above as the 5th digit on the VIN. Why it changed from a K to a J for 1987 I have no idea.

You're wording that wrong. It's Regal Limited with a turbo motor. Remember the LC2 was an option and the Limited was a Model. There were 3 Regal models for 84-86. J=Base,K=T-Type,M=Limited. And that's why no K code for 87. Goes back to the argument of why there were no T-Type Regals built in 87.

Take note: Notice how on the 1984 ID label they read in alphabetic order going across each line. On the 1987 labels they red DOWN each column. Without seeing 85-86 in front of me not sure which way they run. Plus has 14 columns shown above as opposed to 13 columns 1987 version

That's the easy way to tell where the car was built. All Flint cars have that label and that sequence. And all Jerusalem built cars have the sequence reading from right to left. That's a joke of course. I could post labels from the other plants but I won't since this is dedicated to TR's.The fun ones are the Mexican ElCaminos. BTW the 84 GN seat code is AQ9.
Maybe I need to write that book. It's hard reading these posts that are longer than 100 words.

Oh and Brian wants to know what he wins if he posts his SPID label with less than 52 codes?

I'm tired. I'll post a reply to your Methanol car post tomorrow.

 

[strikeeagle]

Which is why you don't see the GMD code on any SPID that has the PON code.

I think you misspoke?

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Excuse me if I step on your toes Dennis.
You are correct in that it's probably not important but there is a formula for how GM determined the check digit. I'll post it as soon as I can dig it up from my archives. BTW It could also be a letter A through Z minus a few like O,Q and I.
The tubs of our cars were built by Fisher Body at the Buick City facility in Flint and trucked south down to the Pontiac MI plant for final assembly. This was true for even the Hot Air cars built in Flint although most of the time the Fisher Body facility was in the same plant as the GMAD facility. Fisher built the bodies and GMAD or General Motors Assembly Division did the final assembly. These are evident in the two SPID label codes FFL=Fisher Body Flint and GMD. As far as I know the Pontiac plant was the only G-Body plant that did not have an on site Fisher Body facility. Which is why you don't see the GMD code on any SPID that has the PON code.
You're wording that wrong. It's Regal Limited with a turbo motor. Remember the LC2 was an option and the Limited was a Model. There were 3 Regal models for 84-86. J=Base,K=T-Type,M=Limited. And that's why no K code for 87. Goes back to the argument of why there were no T-Type Regals built in 87.
That's the easy way to tell where the car was built. All Flint cars have that label and that sequence. And all Jerusalem built cars have the sequence reading from right to left. That's a joke of course. I could post labels from the other plants but I won't since this is dedicated to TR's.The fun ones are the Mexican ElCaminos. BTW the 84 GN seat code is AQ9.
Maybe I need to write that book. It's hard reading these posts that are longer than 100 words.

Oh and Brian wants to know what he wins if he posts his SPID label with less than 52 codes?

I'm tired. I'll post a reply to your Methanol car post tomorrow.

kirban 2 cents worth

tell brian contest open to running cars with label attached not open to companies or employees magic number is to hit 50 or 100 in other direction.

on the methanol cars like to see how close the VINS are to each other may be similar to the trooper cars I mentioned earlier.

While you explain some of the GM logic above, it still seems strange they did certain things related to their code system eg WE2 GN option and same WE2 shown for LeSabre T-Type option in 1987 as well.

I guess in one way we are fortunate that at least GM put our ID labels in a visible place that stayed with the car (inside trunk lid). My records show other makes would have been on spare tire cover, console door even on the fender well etc.

As for the many words, it works. Trust me on the book it is not as easy, as one may think. Great once its done, its getting to that point that can be difficult.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

knowing enough to keep it interesting

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

trivia contest time

not eligible past winners, turbo related employees etc.

Concerning the powermaster brake unit. Probably the most preplexing part under the hood of 1985-1987 Turbo Regals. I know of only a few people that know everything about them and I am not one of them.

The research for the two answers I seek is based on my collection of cores and Richard Clarks collection. Approximately 600 cores currently plus between the two of us and what we have seen over the years. In other words if your answer is not what we say it is you gotta show me proof.

First part of the question:

What company made/supplied the brake switch to GM for the powermaster?

Second part of the question:

How many different reservoirs have you seen on the Turbo Regal powermaster brake unit. Give brief description of each explaining your answer.

First correct answer to BOTH parts in the same post is a prize winner.

the clock is ticking.......

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

 

[reggie44]

Last Trivia question of the night...

Hi Dennis & Turbo Buick Regal Enthusiasts:

I believe the original manufacturer of the power master brake switch was General Electric! :biggrin:

And I am aware of two different reservoirs for the power master brake set-up - the current one and correct one for all Turbo Buick Regal applications which is square and all level at the top where the brake master cylinder lid attaches AND the second type I have seen which would not be correct for a Buick Turbo Regal application is one that was commonly found on the Buick Roadmaster and large stationwagons of the period where the master cylinder reservoir was on a angle (tilted)...not sure why it was tilted though?

Do I win a bag of M&M's or something? hehe Just kidding!

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Hi Dennis & Turbo Buick Regal Enthusiasts:

I believe the original manufacturer of the power master brake switch was General Electric! :biggrin:

And I am aware of two different reservoirs for the power master brake set-up - the current one and correct one for all Turbo Buick Regal applications which is square and all level at the top where the brake master cylinder lid attaches AND the second type I have seen which would not be correct for a Buick Turbo Regal application is one that was commonly found on the Buick Roadmaster and large stationwagons of the period where the master cylinder reservoir was on a angle (tilted)...not sure why it was tilted though?

Do I win a bag of M&M's or something? hehe Just kidding!

kirban 2 cents worth

not the correct answer - sorry

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

More on the trunk ID codes: GM breaks them down into 27 families according to this chart I have from GM. Examples here you can see some consistancy seat relate codes start with the letter A. Steering related N such as N33 for tilt and NP5 for leather wrapped etc.

Popular codes concerning the rear end G80 for posi, G87 for the 8.5 ring gear, GU6 for 3.42 gears...your always going to show G87 and GU6. G80 would be the option so not every car would have it.

B codes interior related such as floor mats etc., Roof options start with like CC1 for hatchroof, CF5 for astroroof, C04 landau roof etc.

Radios start with a U code

Bumpers V codes like in our cars the good codes are VD6 and VD7 for aluminum supports.

Some codes overlap depending on the second letter. Tough ones to figure out are for front and rear springs. Those codes start with numbers like 6 or 7 etc would be the front springs depending on the rest of the code. Codes starting with 8 and 9 would be for the rear springs depending on the rest of the code. These codes also apply to other items as well depending on the rest of the digits.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Next topic in this same thread: Body bushings? Either have them all or not have them all?

 

[salvageV6]

Both my '87 cars have GMD and PON and FFL codes.

WE4 and a GN.

I think the '86's may have one less code out of the 3.

But have others '87's don't.

But we'll never know going about it this way.

 

[Phoneguy]

Both my '87 cars have GMD and PON and FFL codes.

My 87 GN has these as well

Bryan

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Both my '87 cars have GMD and PON and FFL codes.

WE4 and a GN.

I think the '86's may have one less code out of the 3.

But have others '87's don't.

But we'll never know going about it this way.

kirban 2 cents worth

I agree with your statement my car 87 turbo T shows GMD and PON code as does 2 others ID labels I have pealed off 87s one a WE4 other a GN.

Frankly, as I stated before the ID label system is anything but consistant. In the space of 4 years on a car model(s) that was limited production to start with hailed as something special, their accounting (documentation) system is nothing short of confusing.

While its true none of us know it all, in just a handful of question and photos that have been presented how proved, number one; topic has generated a lot of interest, and number 2 things are not the same. WE2 to us means Grand National to someone who has a passion for a LeSabre T-Type that code is also WE2 on ID label. (Not sure where it is on those models).

The next can of worms I plan to cover is body bushings......

Like I noted earlier, it would have been really great if Buick had planned to have a seperate set of VINs for the Turbo Regal. Then like the 04-06 GTO their would be no question as to production counts per model, per combo etc.

I think it wasn't soon after our cars that the Fisher logo dropped from sight? Eric may know when this happened.

denniskirban@yahoo.com

None of us know it all, but each has contributed making it interesting if it wasn't this thread wold have faded.

 

[SS_Sean]

Thanks, it must have been a very nice looking car when it was new.

Take a look at the holes in the rear deck lid and see if they are spaced in a manner that would suggest a shotgun rack was mounted there. With unmarked/under-cover cars they would often mount a shotgun in the truck, attached to the lid. Just a suggestion.

 

[Boostnitup]

Interior... on the '84 GN

That is a lacking area on my car for sure... and probably will never receive the parts it needs until another '84 GN owner wraps his around a telephone pole.

It is an adjustable electric Lears Sieglar interior - "driver's seat."

It is a loaded car... No crank window. All electric. Includes the Moonroof!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LzNPirUyG8[/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_vuq97bRB0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[markboss]

Dennis,
Here is my RPO decal....92 total...

Mark