The Only 3300 lb. Buick V6 in the 8s using...

[baadgn]

I think so much stupid **** flies out of your keyboard that most people don't read your posts very closely. Admittedly though, watching you pat yourself on the back for having an under-performing slug racecar is like a train wreck, I can't help but keep watching

Ha,

Just imagine having thanksgiving dinner with don, the torture of having to listen to what BS comes out of his mouth !!!!!The good thing is by now im sure they know who the turkey is.

 

[Alky V6]

Ha,

Just imagine having thanksgiving dinner with don, the torture of having to listen to what BS comes out of his mouth !!!!!The good thing is by now im sure they know who the turkey is.

Actually, I'm not much of a talkative person. I pretty much like to observe and let others entertain. I know better than to talk car stuff with my family.
When I want to share car stuff, I come here, mainly. There does seem to be some people that like to read my blundering. Whether they're getting anything out of it or not, I don't know. Maybe some read it for simple entertainment, like flypaprboy and papr baggn. They sure like trolling here a lot. I'm sure it's not to learn anything. They already know everything. Like how much a Buick V6 head can breathe because the chart told them. Yeah. Some smart guys here. That's for sure. We're in the company of some real geniuses, gentlemen.
Anyway, have a happy Thanksgiving everyone.

 

[RIFF RAFF]

Don i have no gripe with you .. But to some you look like you built your car around your heads .. Thats like building a house and starting with the roof shingles .. I have read and reread this thread and im not really learning anything i could apply to my cars and get results with todays tech .. But some how you did it.. So ..your car looks like it would be a whole lot of fun to drive .. Just get that thing to hook and you'll be set .. My block & heads are stock .. My trans slightly upgraded .. 2800 stall . Bunch of bolt on's .just gas and running mid ten's should i be asking why ?? When others cant make it out of the 11's with the same parts . Or am i just lucky ?? Maybe my track is shorter then thiers ..

 

[Alky V6]

Don i have no gripe with you .. But to some you look like you built your car around your heads .. Thats like building a house and starting with the roof shingles .. I have read and reread this thread and im not really learning anything i could apply to my cars and get results with todays tech .. But some how you did it.. So ..your car looks like it would be a whole lot of fun to drive .. Just get that thing to hook and you'll be set .. My block & heads are stock .. My trans slightly upgraded .. 2800 stall . Bunch of bolt on's .just gas and running mid ten's should i be asking why ?? When others cant make it out of the 11's with the same parts . Or am i just lucky ?? Maybe my track is shorter then thiers ..

I appreciate you commenting in the midst of all the trolling lately.
I went into my project with one basic limitation. It was the heads. They were all I could afford as far as heads, so that is what became my constant for my first build, and the builds after. Others might look at the start of a build as being, how much hp do you want to make? What sort of ETs do you want out of a particular car. You know. End of the road performance goals. Keep in mind now, when I started this project in earnest, I was raising two young boys and in the midst of working and feeding a new business I had started about 5-6 years previously. I didn't have a lot of money to simply go out and buy a set of Stage II heads. Besides, this was my very first Buick V6 build. How many people go out and make a max effort Stage II headed monster their first engine build? I'm going to guess very, very few, if any. Anyway, I had done a lot of reading before I started this project and became infatuated with methanol fuel and the idea of using nitrous to spool a turbo, basically erasing the spool up problems associated with turbocharging. I was also curious as to why there wasn't very much information on the use of nitrous oxide with methanol.
So at the beginning, I had set for the project 3 main goals. Use the M&A heads to their fullest possible capacity without major head modifications, use methanol fuel, and use nitrous oxide to help spool whatever turbo I would eventually end up with on the car. My hp expectations were low. This was back in the mid to late 90s. Not too many people were doing fantastic things with stock based heads back then, so I figured the largest I would need would be a T70. People actually tried to talk me into a smaller turbo back then.

 

[antiquettype]

Correction.
I made a mistake to an answer for turbobuick in post 65. I answered question number 3 with EGT temps. It should have been for compressor outlet temps. I don't have that number. Intake air temps though, are about 90C by the end of the 1/8 mile. This is using a liquid type intercooler that is dry.
Someone did bring that mistake up to me at some point, but I wasn't aware of the error. Sorry about that.

90 degrees celcious? Where are you measuring that? Running a liiquid intercooler dry? Why? Is that something else you set out to do from the beginning? Is that a record setter too? Has anyone else read this thread? I feel like I am taking crazy pills!

I understand you run alcohol, but why not lose the intercooler altogether.

 

[RIFF RAFF]

90 degrees celcious? Where are you measuring that? Running a liiquid intercooler dry? Why? Is that something else you set out to do from the beginning? Is that a record setter too? Has anyone else read this thread? I feel like i am taking crazy pills!

I understand you run alcohol, but why not lose the intercooler altogether.

im guessing volume on this one .. Air volume that is

 

[RIFF RAFF]

Don get a set of stage 2 heads and 105 mm turbo and lets see the future .. I think it would work untill the power hit the rear wheels .. Ive used dust off to freeze my mass air sensor with good results ... People think im crazy but it works .. So im not here to judge .. I think your car is cool to say the least ..

 

[Alky V6]

edit: Wrote this before I noticed the responces after my last post.
The reason I never upgraded the heads is because I have never reached that first goal yet, of pushing these small heads to their very limit. I'm not quite there yet. Over the years, I kept seeing improvements in performance, and I never reached a point where I got bored trying to squeeze a little more out of these heads. It's getting close to that end, though.
My dream would be to take what I've learned from this project and move it over to a set of Stage II heads or an up-to-date set of Stage I style heads such as GN1s or TA heads. That may come this next O/H. Not sure which way I'll go yet.

 

[Alky V6]

Don get a set of stage 2 heads and 105 mm turbo and lets see the future .. I think it would work untill the power hit the rear wheels .. Ive used dust off to freeze my mass air sensor with good results ... People think im crazy but it works .. So im not here to judge .. I think your car is cool to say the least ..

I like your thinking. I was also thinking that a set of Stage II heads would require a larger turbo.

 

[Alky V6]

90 degrees celcious? Where are you measuring that? Running a liiquid intercooler dry? Why? Is that something else you set out to do from the beginning? Is that a record setter too? Has anyone else read this thread? I feel like I am taking crazy pills!

I understand you run alcohol, but why not lose the intercooler altogether.

90 degrees celcius. That is just a tad above where alcohol likes the intake temps. This is by the end of the 1/8 mile. Don't recall what it is at the end of the 1/4.
I originally ran with a liquid intercooler with water in it. The intercooler sprung a leak. Instead of fixing it, I plugged the openings and drained it. I could possibly run without it, but for now, I'm keeping it on the car as a heat sink to slow the rise of the intake air temp. It allows me to run a little leaner instead of having to pump extra fuel into the motor for intake charge cooling.
There are a lot of methanol fueled, turbocharged engines that still use an intercooler. From what I've seen, they'll use a liquid intercooler. Those applications are generally very high boosted. That is another reason I keep the intercooler in the plumbing. Possible future use.

 

[RIFF RAFF]

i like your thinking. I was also thinking that a set of stage ii heads would require a larger turbo.

why not !! If your using nitrous to spool it .. I dont think the size would matter over delivery .. A 224 pushing 2000 hp would be fun ..LET ME ADD THATS 333.3 HP PER PISTON .. INSANE POWER ..

 

[Alky V6]

why not !! If your using nitrous to spool it .. I dont think the size would matter over delivery .. A 224 pushing 2000 hp would be fun ..LET ME ADD THATS 333.3 HP PER PISTON .. INSANE POWER ..

You're getting the hang of it.
The Stage II heads would do best with all the cubes I could get out of the short block. It wouldn't be a 224 cid.
The sim I worked up years ago of a Stage II setup is at 1,875 bhp using actual real world flow bench numbers. Remember, my Stage I sim work grossly under-estimated the hp potential using real world flow bench numbers.

 

[Alky V6]

Thought I'd go ahead and post the S510 compressor map with my operating line painted onto the map.

 

[Alky V6]

Not hardly. I just thought it was comical you wanted to brag about outrunning V8's. We all know what kind of V8 cars show up for T&T. I see 4 cylinder DSM's, Buick V6's, 6 cylinder cummins all out run V8's every Friday night at the track. The guys who show up with nitrous motors on 2 guns, turbo cars and blower cars to out run all the T&T regulars and get a kick out of it are what's referred to as Friday night hero's. When heads up events roll into town they are no where to be found.

You know alot of turbo small blocks still use the 1.6 exhaust valve to make 2000hp. Granted they have 2 more cylinders. So a 1.6 exhaust valve will support 1500hp on a Buick V6. With that in mind It's easy to say a 1.5 exhaust valve will support 1400hp. So when you really look at it your still under the hp limit of what the exhaust valve can support. It comes back to what the intake port can support. Since everyone quit using these heads for max effort builds years ago, there's not much info about what they can make.

I remember someone relaying to me once that Kenny had told him that M&As were done at 1200 bhp.

 

[RIFF RAFF]

You're getting the hang of it.
The Stage II heads would do best with all the cubes I could get out of the short block. It wouldn't be a 224 cid.
The sim I worked up years ago of a Stage II setup is at 1,875 bhp using actual real world flow bench numbers. Remember, my Stage I sim work grossly under-estimated the hp potential using real world flow bench numbers.

what about 15-25 cid added ?

 

[turbobitt]

Thought I'd go ahead and post the S510 compressor map with my operating line painted onto the map.

I would like to see what happens at 4.0 PR. If you can utilize the flow at that PR, then you succesfully used up most of your turbo.

 

[Alky V6]

what about 15-25 cid added ?

15-25 cid added to what? 224?

 

[RIFF RAFF]

15-25 cid added to what? 224?

no im just guessing what ever the cid mite be it would not be what most call the norm ..

 

[Alky V6]

I would like to see what happens at 4.0 PR. If you can utilize the flow at that PR, then you succesfully used up most of your turbo.

We have to remember that this compressor map is for the standard S510, which is a 95mm compressor. My 91mm is a custom version of the S510/95mm. There is no compressor map for the 91mm, so some imagination has to be used.
One thing that does puzzle me about this compressor map is that the 95mm is rated to 1650 hp. I don't see that with this compressor map.
The little bit that I have pushed the boost past 31 psi boost, I'm noticing that the fueling is starting to nose over. A sign that the fun should be ending soon. I'm thinking the operating line will make a curve towards straight up soon after 120 lbs/min.

 

[Alky V6]

no im just guessing what ever the cid mite be it would not be what most call the norm ..

Lips are sealed.