The Only 3300 lb. Buick V6 in the 8s using...

[Street Lethal]

With this post I am done with you. Good luck with your project.

Goodbye...and best of luck.

Guys, come on. Even Don admits that this thread is a learning process for all who are reading along. I for one appreciate all of the criticism being thrown back and forth, as it helps to chip away at all of the non-essentials until the truth is revealed. No reason to leave the discussion...

 

[Alky V6]

Are you throwing me out of your thread because I am willing to belly up to the table? You are far more childish than I thought, and I didn't give you much credit before.

I am fairly certain I will get a cheering section for it. Not because it is a good idea, but because I will run the number. On q16, with a smaller turbo, at waaaayyyyyy more psi. With an intercooler that works might I add.

Goodbye...and best of luck.

Actually, I was not throwing you out. I'm sorry you took it that way. I was simply suggesting that you should start a thread on your project so that Dusty and friedchicken can ridicule you about your 'silly goal'. I for one do not think it's silly. I can appreciate a person who picks out a goal and goes for it. But, since you did take what I said the wrong way, it's interesting how it brought out your true feelings about me and this thread. That being the case, I think it is the best decision that you bow out of this thread. All the luck with your project.

 

[Alky V6]

Look back through your thousands of posts and I'm sure you'll mention something about EGR to heat up the incoming air. Since I questioned it it's malicious and an insult....too funny. Actually it's rediculous.

With this post I am done with you. Good luck with your project.

If you're not sure about what you're talking about, maybe you should just keep it to yourself until you can figure out what's true and what's pure BS made up to be used in a malicious manner to make someone look bad. Pretty sad, Dusty.

Back to the silly quest of achieving 8s with 1.83, 1.5 valves.

Which seems more silly?
Building an 8 capable bottom end and pushing a set of small heads to their limit?

Or,

Building a ticking time bomb, oil spill waiting to happen, of a short block and helping to push it into the 8s?

You didn't think maybe you were putting someone's life on the line with a stunt like that?

AND I'M THE STUPID ONE?!!!

 

[Alky V6]

A few thoughts to pass on to finish this thread off with.
IMO, equal fuel and air distribution is of utmost importance, allowing any fuel and timing, cylinder to cylinder trimming to be kept to a minimum.
Obtaining full vaporization of the fuel before it enters the cylinder is not important. Assuring equal distribution is more important than the level of vaporization of the fuel by the time it passes the intake valve and into the cylinder.
Case in point. Some alcohol engine builders will inject fuel right into the intake valve pocket, aimed at the back of the intake valve. This method frees up intake runner volume so that more air can be injested with a given intake port size. A very good example of how important some poeple feel it is to free up intake runner volume to get better breathing when using alcohol fuel.

 

[Alky V6]

Resonance pressure pulse tuning.
Most effective within a very narrow rpm band. The velocity level through the intake port, controlled by the dimensions and volume of the intake port is an important tuning tool to put the peak level of resonance tuning for a particular engine combination where you want it, or where you think it would do the most good in the rpm band.
The rpm band where I chose to peak the resonance tuning effect was where the engine is working to initially spool the large 91mm with the nitrous. The level of help from resonance tuning tapering off up to redline.

 

[Street Lethal]

Obtaining full vaporization of the fuel before it enters the cylinder is not important. Assuring equal distribution is more important than the level of vaporization of the fuel by the time it passes the intake valve and into the cylinder....

But this contradicts the great Smokey Yunick though... :tongue:

 

[Alky V6]

Equal distribution of air and fuel to the cylinders is done in an effort to produce equal power output from each cylinder. This is called cylinder balancing.
What's just as important as balancing the intake side of the engine, is balancing the exhaust side of the engine. Obtaining equal exhaust evacuation between all the cylinders. This will give the best chance of equalizing air/fuel intake charges between all the cylinders.
If one cylinder leaves more exhaust gases in the cylinder compared to the others, then there will also end up being less room in the cylinder for the incoming intake charge. That cylinder will be underpowered compared to the others. You will not obtain balanced cylinder power without addressing the exhaust side also.

 

[Alky V6]

But this contradicts the great Smokey Yunick though... :tongue:

He was dealing with carbs, and dual and single plane intake manifolds wet with fuel.
Port injecting the fuel is a whole different world.
The key to both using a carburetor and port fuel injection is 'equal distribution of air and fuel'. With a carb, your best chance of equal fuel distribution is to have the fuel as vaporized as possible. This is the same sort of concern someone would have injecting methanol at the up-pipe. They would need the alcohol to vaporize well to hope for it to make the sharp turns in the intake manifold.

 

[bison]

17 pages of crap. Wow

 

[Alky V6]

If a person was to port inject the cylinder coolant (methanol or water), then equal distribution is quaranteed and the level of vaporization becomes much, much less important.

 

[Alky V6]

17 pages of crap. Wow

Why are you reading it? Do you always read crap?
If you have a constructive argument for anything I've stated, let's see it.
Just writing "17 pages of crap. Wow" just shows me you like to read crap.

 

[Alky V6]

Look at the amount of methanol some are starting to inject at the up-pipe. They're expecting this mixture to fully vaporize and make the turns after the throttle body into each cylinder equally. What would Smokey think about the chance of that?

 

[Street Lethal]

Look at the amount of methanol some are starting to inject at the up-pipe. They're expecting this mixture to fully vaporize and make the turns after the throttle body into each cylinder equally. What would Smokey think about the chance of that?

Not really defending Smokey Yunick here, as the idea of bringing the fuel past the detonation mark in terms of temperature to eliminate the hydrogen radical ahead of time that causes detonation, is pretty drastic. I mean, it makes sense when you think about it, but a lot of the methods don't seem feasible with the average engine today, although I'm sure there is a way that I am overlooking here. Also, putting methanol aside, I think Smokey was more concerned about attaining his 1.8 horsepower per cubic inch displacement, and incredible gas mileage, using pump gas. I think Smokey would have had a hell of a time playing with E85 though, that's for sure...

[video=youtube;Qg8oJXcWjnE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg8oJXcWjnE[/video]

 

[Alky V6]

I've never really studied that project of Smokey's. Was he using heat to dissociate the gasoline molecule before it entered the cylinder, instead of relying on the heat of compression to do it?

 

[Alky V6]

Yesterday, I met a fellow that is doing some part time work in the shop next to ours. He came over in the middle of the day to enjoy some of the methanol exhaust fumes I was creating with a few nitrous tuneup tests I was doing on the rack. He happened to be a fellow racer that has been up to Barona and recognized my car. BTW, the nitrous tune has been finalized. Purring like a kitten.
His thing is Volkswagen 4 cyl H engines. We started discussing turbo tuning strategies and it turns out that he helps crew for a fellow that follows a very similar tuning philosophy to mine. They happen to class race and he explained that one day they asked themselves, why couldn't pressure wave tuning work with a turbocharged engine? Being old n/a guys, they were very aware of the advantages of pressure pulse tuning. He went on to explain an interesting collector design they had come up with that netted 3 extra hp. A sort of restriction in the collector, or it might be called a reflection wave generator, for those that might have a better understanding of pressure pulse tuning. A restriction in the exhaust that ended up creating more hp for them.
It sounded like they were also into sims and they put together some camshaft and exhaust system specs to try out. The results were spectacular. For what they had for an engine, they ended up dominating the class with 5 psi less boost than others in the same class. Leaving the field scratching their heads wondering how they were doing it. An interesting story to me, to say the least.
He was rather surprised when I explained to him what I was accomplishing with 1.83, 1.5 valves.

 

[Alky V6]

I should add, they burned gasoline, didn't use nitrous, did not select any particular turbo to lessen exhaust backpressure, and used a high stall TC to spool the turbo.
That seems to pretty much narrow down what their advantage was over their competition.

 

[Fryguy]

I should add, they burned gasoline, didn't use nitrous, did not select any particular turbo to lessen exhaust backpressure, and used a high stall TC to spool the turbo.
That seems to pretty much narrow down what their advantage was over their competition.

Yep, it must have been that 3hp

I apologize for interrupting you while you're talking to yourself, I just wanted to reassure you that you're a genius. Carry on.

 

[bison]

Once i was standing next to car on the dyno and i farted during a pull and for whatever reason the car picked up 3 hp. The backup pull resulted in 3hp less. I was scratching my head for sure. Had to be the fart that netted the 3hp.

 

[Alky V6]

3 hp on a n/a application with an unorthodox collector change.
I'm sure they judged the gain with just one pull.

 

[Alky V6]

Once i was standing next to car on the dyno and i farted during a pull and for whatever reason the car picked up 3 hp. The backup pull resulted in 3hp less. I was scratching my head for sure. Had to be the fart that netted the 3hp.

lol I can see you taking aim at the air cleaner during the pull. Lucky you didn't detonate it.