Thinking of higher stall. Any downsides or tips?

[Squid4life]

Well, considering going up in turbo size, so figured I would look at a higher stall converter as well. Looking at the 67mm turbos (not really necessary now, but will fit the future build) in a ball bearing. Have an old orange stripe converter that was rebuilt by Neal Chance converters a few years ago and it stalls right about 2,800-3,000. Was looking at the ball bearing 67 which seems to need a 3,300-3,500. I would be using a lock up converter, so I guess my question is: is there any drawback going to a ~3,500ish converter, other than additional heat buildup in traffic driving? I have driven a buddies non-lockup 4,000 stall in a Monte SS and think being a NLU it would be a bit much. How do you like a 3,500 LU? Should I go higher "just in case". :biggrin:

 

[2QUICK2B6]

my pts 3400 would barley spin the tires in the burnout box with the 67 bb turbo

 

[Squid4life]

my pts 3400 would barley spin the tires in the burnout box with the 67 bb turbo

Could you explain? Why is that, not enough stall? What did you do to correct this? Thanks for the reply, this is good info!

 

[turbo nasty]

IMO if you are racing a with a L/U convertor 3.2k rpm stall and higher and NOT locking it up a WOT then slip % on the big end is gonna show its ugly face. High stall and lock up convertors coupling hydraulically unlocked at the RPM's our buicks turn just dont work IMO.

If you lock the convertor @ WOT the slip % is null but its harder on parts and trans and convertor clutch life will be shorter.

Go non L/U then you can have higher stall speeds and still have good coupling on the big end. But with the non L/U you lose gas mileage (typically turn 250 rpm higher vs L/U) and put off lil more heat at cruise. A big cooler (which you should have anyways) is needed for either and will take care of that.

Not being able to spool a BB67 with a 3400..DANG thats weird. What hot side A/R? What rpm would the convertor stall to at 5ish psi? If it was any where close to 3400 then it wasnt true to advertised speed

 

[RatFink]

My $.02

Spragged 3000 non lock with 67mm BB turbo would spool quickly and not be slushy to cruise on the street with mannered trans temps.

 

[Squid4life]

My car sees highway every time I drive it. It has been cross country a few times both out of necessity and for fun. I think it suits me best to stay with a LU converter for mileage and heat. (but, I am still learning here)

The trans is a built unit using some good billet parts, good stuff inside so I am not too worried about the lockup hurting it. Whatever converter I buy I plan on it being the last one I buy, so I will spend a bit more coin on it and get a good one. (for longevity as well as performance)

I do have an external cooler but if I went with a higher stall I was considering a larger unit to be safe and maybe a trans temp guage to keep an eye on things.

Thank you all very much for the input so far, this is definitely a learning experience.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

How fast do you want to go?

A 67 will go 10.30's and faster. If you only want 10.90's then buy a smaller turbo which will work better with a tigter converter.

 

[Squid4life]

I think I would like to work my way to low 10's or 10 flat some day with the planets aligned, etc. I really like what I see/hear about the 67's, and have no heartache running up to a 3,500 converter as long as it is a LU. This of course is a semi-educated guess or education from reading as much as I can on here with peoples combos, issues, times, builds, etc.

I plan on a new motor build in the next year or years, but plan to beat on this one while I have it. If I am going to buy a converter and turbo, I would like it to be the last one I buy.

I think if I were to buy tomorrow I would go BB67 and 3,400 LU. See any issues with that choice?

 

[Squid4life]

Also, I should probably update my sig... I do not drive the GN every day now. I drive a Powerstroke Excursion most days, maybe drive the GN 2-3 times a week. So, I don't mind it being a little more radical. (not that that turbo and converter is very radical...)

 

[Dusty Bradford]

So goals are low 10's, last converter and turbo you will ever buy.

Your lock-up converter and turbo need to match the cam or your desired shift rpm. If you want to shift a motor at 5600 rpm and run 10's with a 67mm.......you will need a converter and trans that will take WOT lock-up. The reason for this is the stall will need to be at 3200 and a converter with that much stall speed won't couple the power of a 10 second car with a 5600 shift. 6000 is pushing it. Combination is key.

For me. Once I cross into the 10's I don't even consider lock-up.

 

[Squid4life]

Currently have ported big valve heads, ported stock intake, 70mm TB/plenum, 204/214 cam. Looking at the Rev X cam from Full Throttle 210/215 .516/.516 110 L/S.

I guess the only iffy thing is the lockup. You say no LU once in the 10's. If you were to drive a BB67 3,400 stall mid/low 10 sec car across the state or country with a NON-LU converter, would it burn up? Sorry if that is a trivial question. I tend to drive distances periodically so I guess that is why I lean towards the LU. Again, still listening and learning here.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Currently have ported big valve heads, ported stock intake, 70mm TB/plenum, 204/214 cam. Looking at the Rev X cam from Full Throttle 210/215 .516/.516 110 L/S.

I guess the only iffy thing is the lockup. You say no LU once in the 10's. If you were to drive a BB67 3,400 stall mid/low 10 sec car across the state or country with a NON-LU converter, would it burn up? Sorry if that is a trivial question. I tend to drive distances periodically so I guess that is why I lean towards the LU. Again, still listening and learning here.

Will a non lock burn the car up? Answer is no. My car ran 10.60 and I'd drive it on 3-4 hr trips with a spragless non lock. If I'm going across country I'm renting someone elses car:biggrin:

If you want to buy one converter and it has to be lock-up. You will want a converter and trans that will take WOT lock-up. It's just how it is.....if you put low 10 second power to a 3200+ stall converter it will have excessive slip unless locked.

 

[Squid4life]

Will a non lock burn the car up? Answer is no. My car ran 10.60 and I'd drive it on 3-4 hr trips with a spragless non lock. If I'm going across country I'm renting someone elses car:biggrin:

If you want to buy one converter and it has to be lock-up. You will want a converter and trans that will take WOT lock-up. It's just how it is.....if you put low 10 second power to a 3200+ stall converter it will have excessive slip unless locked.

How about this; 3200+ stall converter and have Eric tell the chip NOT to lock the converter during WOT pass. Isn't that an option? Would that alleviate the issue of too much strain on the trans/converter during a pass, but allow lockup on the highway? Also another option could be the switch where either ECM controls lock up or you can turn it off/force it. I think I saw those somewhere. Would either of those options allow you to safely run low 10's, and still manage good highway manners?

 

[Dusty Bradford]

How about this; 3200+ stall converter and have Eric tell the chip NOT to lock the converter during WOT pass. Isn't that an option? Would that alleviate the issue of too much strain on the trans/converter during a pass, but allow lockup on the highway? Also another option could be the switch where either ECM controls lock up or you can turn it off/force it. I think I saw those somewhere. Would either of those options allow you to safely run low 10's, and still manage good highway manners?

If you want lock-up it MUST be locked at WOT to get you into the low 10's. That's what I was pointing out earlier. The 9.5 and 10" lock-up converters are not capable of holding low 10 second power without being locked at WOT. You will "blow through" them. People have ran mid 10's with them but slip is over 14% and the mph is down at least 4-5 from where it should be.

What causes this is the low shift point of the Buick engine. An LS1 car can go 9's on the 9.5 and 10" lock-ups because they shift at 6500+ which allows the converter to more fully couple. A Buick engine with a 3200+ stall and a shift point of 5800 running low 10's will have hard time getting enough top end charge due to excessive slip. The flash stall and shift point is just too close together to couple at that power level.

Other option is the non lock. You have to be careful because most of the non-lock converters are based on the same core as the lock-ups which mean the converter will act exactly like the lock-up version running unlocked. My 9.5 uses different internal pieces to get a higher stall down low but couple well up top so it will allow people to spool a larger turbo and run the mph of a locked converter.

I see it as your only choices are a converter that can take WOT locks such as the 9x11 or Multi disc Vigilante or my 9.5 non lock.

 

[Squid4life]

Okay, understood. Sorry, sometimes you have to draw it out with crayons and cartoons for me…

I was looking at those exact converters, but (obviously) was having a hard decision with the LU vs NLU issue. It makes sense to me now, and now my choices are narrowed down quite a bit. Thank you very much for your guidance and patience, it is truly appreciated. I will probably be in contact regarding your converter through PM or email. Thanks again to all, and if you have any more input, likes, dislikes, or experiences, please post up.

 

[breiter]

I have a similar build. We run 1/8th mile so I don't have the same concern about locking the converter at WOT. I am having my 3200 restalled to around 3600. I found the car really starts making power around 20 or 30 feet out and I believe a little more stall will help me. I also run 26" slicks. I tried 28" slicks and it killed the 60' times. I get about 2 tenths better 60' with 26" tires which is another reason I think a little more stall will help. I too like a L/U converter but if we ran 1/4 mile I might have to rethink it. Then again, if I only ran the car a couple times a year I would probably go with a L/U that could be locked at WOT.