This thing is SLOOOOWWW!

[Torvus]

Here's my list of mods.
Walbro 340 with hotwire kit
009's with matching Reds 93 chip
Bosch regulator set at 42.5 static with line off.
SMC alky kit set to come on at 10#
Stock turbo set at ~ 19#
Nitto DR's.
New Timing chain and Valve Springs
Scanmaster II
Turbo-link (can't use because it stops logging under WOT)
Drverside Heeader welded.
Full exhaust, test pipe in place of cat.
Engine has 155k on it, but compression tests are fine and it doesn't smoke.
I believe the turbo may have 155k on it too but looks in good shape.


Car ran a 14.7 @ 96 mph with a 2.4 60ft all night. It ran the same MPH going from 15# to 19#. FP was good, only 4. KR during shift.
No tire spin at all launching at 4#.

It ran 15.4 @ 94 MPH bone stock with a one legger rear end two months ago.

The car seems to just not have any low end power, or top end for that matter. Should this thing be running any faster? Also, does it sound like a turbo problem? Would there be a gain going from running 19# on the stock to 19# on something like a TE-44?

 

[Red Regal T]

With your current recipe your car should be running at least mid to low 13s. I'd get your problems sorted out before changing turbos. Perhaps you have the wrong torque converter in your trans.

 

[Blown&Injected]

Although do not have enough info, it sounds like you may be rich on the fuel mix. Have you tried to tune with out the alky kit?

Seems like alot of injector for a stock car.

A bigger turbo at the same psi as the stock turbo will make a difference. More air, higher volume, is being moved. It would also make more sense with your injector - a better down pipe would no hurt things either.

BUT

(Like John says - beat me to the post while I was typing.) You still need to figure what it holding you back right now before more mods - What are your O2's especially at the top of second and third gear?

 

[Torvus]

Low 800's. You may be right about running rich. I've suspected that it's been running a tad rich. BLM's at idle are around 95-100. Not sure how to adjust that, it was running like that with the stock injectors and fuel pump. I reset the cam sensor like 3 times per instructions on gnttype.org, after the timing chai swap. I'm wondering if the cam sensor is still off (don't know how) and it's causing my fuel timing to be off. I'm pulling for straws at the moment.

 

[Blown&Injected]

Maybe 180* out?

I just take out the #1 plug and stick my finger in the plug hole while turning the engine over so there is zero mistake about #1 being on the compression stroke - the mark on the balancer will come around one time for the piston to be at TDC but not on compression stroke, and then when the make comes around again you will feel the compression as the mark nears the pointer. That is where you set up the cam sensor.

Also try taking some fuel pressure out. Problem with bigger injectors is that low pressure causes then to not spray well but it might help you find some more power.

In as much as you are basically stock. Try turning off the alcy. Turn boost down to about 15 psi, and see what it runs like with less fuel pressure (O2's in the .720 range).

Just watch KR and O2's - the O2 should be active.

Also ensure everything else is working right espically the MAF and the EGR; also no vac leaks. Follow, or use as a guide, the "spring cleaning" deal on the GN T-Type Org site.

BTW - I use a Monitor 2000. It is s-l-o-w to update. I do not know how your scan tool works but if it is like mine you really have to watch the numbers from the last sample taken after a really long high rpm blast. I will read .820 to .800 as I am 50 to 90% through 2nd gear, than the last second of WOT in 2nd gear the scan will show .740. Then keep reading in 3rd gear.

 

[turbonatr]

Turn off the alky, lower the boost to say 17psi and lower the fuel pressure to 40psi line off. Tune from there without the alky. You're over-injected for your current mods as it is, you don't need the alky.

 

[Torvus]

I've been driving the car for about 3 weeks now. If the cam sensor was 180 out I'm pretty sure I would know it. I've heard that it will run, but will run like arse popping missing and backfiring (Let me know if I'm wrong). . I performed the "Spring Cleaning" recently. Not sure about the EGR, that's something I haven't looked into. I'll have to research that one a bit. I need to pull the alky kit and run it without even though I'm addicted to it. The scanmaster is still a slow updater, but I can keep an eye on it. I'll probably be back at the track on Wed. to do some test and tune to try and work out these bugs. I haven't replaced the MAF but it seems to be reading as usual. I'm sure that a downpipe wouldn't hurt, but I'm only running the stock turbo. I need to get this all worked out, as I'm embarassing myself as a buick owner running 14.7's with the money I've allready spent lol. Thanks for the help.

 

[turbo nasty]

Somethings up for sure !
My 87 with the full STOCK exh and downpipe and the cat gutted, stock turbo,air filter, 37.5 injecs, thumbwheel on 93 setting, 265/50 15 BFG street radials 10 psi under, boxed lowers with poly bushings, 160 t stat and slight over 100k on the clock. I ran 13.78 @ 98-99mph w/196 60'and my best MPH was 100.4 in that trim on 93 pumpgas with no oct booster.

So u have it there just need to tune it.

If your MPH keeps going up during tuning then you are going in the right direction.

 

[Torvus]

Thanks Dr. Obvious lol..j/k. I'm with you, this thing should be running 13.'s. I'll try pulling the alky kit and some FP and see where it goes from there. I also have another chip for the 009's that I'm going to try. How would I adjust for low BLMs at idle or does it really matter?

 

[Red Regal T]

My understanding is chips for 009s are more difficult to burn chips for. I heard that Jim Testa, for one, is pretty good at it.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

If you run alky, get a alky chip

as turbonatr stated your running to rich, but its odd that the car didnt pick up anything from 15-19, i guess that just goes to show how rich it is...

email eric marshall and get one of his chips, it would be interesting to see how well the car picks up with just a chip change-

 

[Torvus]

Thanks Quick, and all the rest that are helping me address the issue. We all know how touchy these cars can be. I'm going to work on getting an alky chip with the new turbo (which will probably be soon if I sell my 4-speed). For now I'm going to just run 14# and tune it. I have been racing carbed engines for a long time and know from experience that you need to tune what you have before you add anything else. As for the 15-19# boost increase and no MPH increase that bugs me as well, but I'm guessing that it falls under being overfueled, and I believe that I turned the pump speed up on that run to make sure that I didn't blow anything up. (I wasn't sure how high I turned the boost up..I was only able to make two Time Only passes on a busy night at the track).

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

also using a EGT will help get it dialed in perfectly

big difference between 1450° and 1620°

BW

 

[Torvus]

Yeah, I know..I've run out of room for gauges at the moment, but plan on resolving that shortly. I'm a firm believer that EGT is the best way to tune anything. It's amazing what you can do on a dyno with EGT tuning.

 

[1badTTA]

Double check your fuel pressure by trying another gauge. Your low BLM at idl means it is pig rich and too much fuel pressure and you seem to be rich all the way down the track. Try lowering it as much as you need to and it should pick right up for you. I wish all tuning issues were this simple.

 

[Torvus]

Update:

Ok, so I've decided that I'm running too much fuel down the track, but even with no alky and boost at only 15# with 93/110 mix and 0 KR, I can only get a best of 14.5 at 98MPH with a '60ft of 2.4 with Drag Radials. It feels fine, doesn't miss or pop, just seems a bit slow off the line, even launching at 3-4#. Still running rich at idle, even tried changing chips. The turbo has about .060 of end play and the new one is orded, but I don't think that would cause the loss of power I'm experiencing. I have a local T-type pro helping me out a bit. I'm about 99% sure I didn't, but am wondering if a cam sensor out 180 would cause the overfueling.

 

[striker_29]

Maybe you should think about what John said earlier regarding your torque converter. You say you are not getting any tire spin at launch with drag radials launching at 4 psi, makes me wonder. Also, are you locking the converter? As far as the cam sensor goes, you may want to invest in the cam sensor tool from caspers, best 30 bucks I ever spent. I don't doubt that you were running fat too with your setup and that will really kill your times as well, good luck and keep tuning!

 

[BlownZ]

Originally posted by Torvus
Update:

Ok, so I've decided that I'm running too much fuel down the track, but even with no alky and boost at only 15# with 93/110 mix and 0 KR, I can only get a best of 14.5 at 98MPH with a '60ft of 2.4 with Drag Radials. It feels fine, doesn't miss or pop, just seems a bit slow off the line, even launching at 3-4#. Still running rich at idle, even tried changing chips. The turbo has about .060 of end play and the new one is orded, but I don't think that would cause the loss of power I'm experiencing. I have a local T-type pro helping me out a bit. I'm about 99% sure I didn't, but am wondering if a cam sensor out 180 would cause the overfueling.

You really aren't that far off from what a near stock GN should be running. If you get your 60' down to the 2.0 range then you are running a high 13 at around 98 mph. You have very few mods so that is realistically about where your car should be. I would practice your launch.....a 2.0 60' could probably be achieved leaving with zero boost and just flashing the converter. Once you can run a high 13 or a low 14 then try cranking some boost up but until then you shouldn't be expecting a low 13 second pass. I don't think your latest times are all that far from what they should be.

 

[tim87tr]

Some of this has been mentioned, but I throw a few things out:

1. Try a different chip, I sold my 93 Reds due to rich conditions that seemed to slow the car. I think they might make a Thrasher for the 009s, and it would be a cheap $25 solution, and you could also get a race chip at the same time
2. Run some 110 and tune for mph by lowering fp. The 110 will be safer in case you have kr. As mentioned, be sure you have a good fp gauge.

3. Write down pertinent info when racing, and analyze the results for possible solutions to your problem. EGT as said is helpful at WOT readings
4. Check to see if the TC is stamped D5, and with those Nittos you can build a few lb boost, mash gas/flashing converter, quickly release brake on launch. The car will 60' better than 2.4 if you don't feather/pedal the accel off the line, and it's not too rich.

5. As mentioned, leave the alky off till you figure other things out, and only make one change at a time to figure out problems/increase mph
6. Check the WOT reading for the MAF with the SM to see if it is close to 255. If not, swap it out with a known good MAF for testing.

Don't think the turbo is the problem either but sounds like you need a new one. I have exhaust fin damage on my stocker when I ran the times in my sig. Good Luck

 

[Blown&Injected]

Originally posted by Torvus
Update:

Ok, so I've decided that I'm running too much fuel down the track, but even with no alky and boost at only 15# with 93/110 mix and 0 KR, I can only get a best of 14.5 at 98MPH with a '60ft of 2.4 with Drag Radials. It feels fine, doesn't miss or pop, just seems a bit slow off the line, even launching at 3-4#. Still running rich at idle, even tried changing chips. The turbo has about .060 of end play and the new one is orded, but I don't think that would cause the loss of power I'm experiencing. I have a local T-type pro helping me out a bit. I'm about 99% sure I didn't, but am wondering if a cam sensor out 180 would cause the overfueling.

Man, Crank That Boost Up! You should be able to run 20psi with the 93/110 mix and it will also help to get the A/F mixture closer to where it should be since there seems to be a rich condition.

The cam sensor being out? I believe that you will not really spray more fuel, just that the injector will fire at the wrong time spraying the fuel on the back of a closed valve to sit there for a moment until the valve opens.

I don't believe the sensor being out 180* would cause the over fueling - poor fueling may add to the problem. It is the big injectors. Add more air and keep an eye on the KR. It is only possible to go so low on the fuel pressure and still have the injector spray correctly.