THS Rules- Redone See New Thread!

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Go through the rule additions/changes and explain why they were even brought up and the benefit they add to the class? And even though I know its impossible to do... try not to BS everyone with misdirection and manipulation......

Hood... Because the rules were not clearly defined so now they are and I had one....one of the cheapest parts you can buy.. so its not the money... but you want to keep it all steel... ok ok..nose weight.. ok ok... is it still BS... but ok... i give you that direct hit towards me......but the rest of that crap just makes it so apparent...

So here we go with picking my car apart to eliminate it from competition....


A Arms.. allowed in 2010 with no complaints from anyone that I heard of... so why target them? Doesnt change the appearance of the car b/c you cant tell unless you climb under the car... Nose weight? You mean like aluminum heads do as well???? oh yeah but you have to add 150lbs... to anywhere you want like the trunk...yeah that makes perfect sense...:rolleyes:

Its no different than taking a torch or grinder and cutting the frame out of the rear wheel... aka notching (which is allowed)

Coil overs... goes with the above comment.... I can some what understand making people keep the stock springs... (barely) But why change it when it doesnt slow the class down or bring it together... you just eliminate people who might have ran in the class that has no advantage with A arms.... oh thats right... that was the purpose to eliminate certain cars...

Its just BS as there was no call for it unless you were trying to eliminate something and I think most of us know what that is....

NO ONE ever bothered me when I was running mid 10s with everything on my car in all the other races.... which is the same exact car that was in BG this year..... until I made the 9 sec pass....then the protesting and hating began.......

I posted some of the fastest times... yeah.... but I didnt then and dont now have car capable of running the fastest time... nor did I win the most races....there are a lot cars out there that have me hands down.... but now they are making rules that have no merit of bringing people in the class but rather pushing people out of the class...

So yes, I am going to speak up and tell it like it is.

And yet the only people answering rule questions are people who swear that nothing to do with the rules....:rolleyes:

yeah... i will buy the golden gate bridge in arizona....


CHEERS,:D


i got to go to class...:wink:


Ok, what if you were targeted? Are you calling it quits for the class? Or are you going to make the required changes and race? Whats done is done. Belly ache all you want but rules are rules. It sucks. I've made some major sacrafices to be in this class. Makes changing a arms a walk in the park. I got away from the ever evolving tsm race car class to be in a more budget friendly class. Fiber hoods, tubular a arms, trick rear spring setups, etc ruin this class imo and make it more like tsm.
Your a good guy, I'd like to see you still race the class. Make the changes and show that you still can be the fastest.
 
That's the piont ,this was targeted at certain PEOPLE!!!!

Weight is weight, as long as your not UNDER ,WHY would it matter!!!!!

BTW how many THS races have you raced in?

JD

Enough to have the right to formulate an opinion about a class that I participate in .... wait a minute..! Theres a rule that would seemingly target my car too! Mabey we could start a protest group make signs, print matching tee shirts, and protest!...Or mabey,just mabey we could make the SIMPLE changes to our cars and enjoy some good heads up racing in a really good class. I think thats what i'm going to do.
 
JD, I am posting even though I know all it does is open me up to a fire fight.
Look how thing have already gone I have been attacked by a few because they do not like the rules. I PMed you yesterday with my phone number and have never heard from you, I am still looking forwardto hearing from you.

Take care, Kip

Instead of some more in the closet discussions or whatever you do in there, why not discuss each of the new (now in bold) rules to the THS class and the cause for the change!!!!

Its not about liking the rules (see the post where I already called the word twisting out) its about that there was only one reason for even targeting certain "bold" line items.

Oh, but here's your chance to explain, but I am sure that it will be met with " I dont have to explain, race the class or not".... Its BS Kip....

I think that there are only like 7 bold lines.... of which half are targeted to the car that made the fastest pass.... so it shouldnt take you or the other guys that helped single it out to go over how the rule was introduced and the expected gain from adding the rule (I would try to make this one beleivable and specific) to benefit the class.
 
Instead of some more in the closet discussions or whatever you do in there, why not discuss each of the new (now in bold) rules to the THS class and the cause for the change!!!!

Its not about liking the rules (see the post where I already called the word twisting out) its about that there was only one reason for even targeting certain "bold" line items.

Oh, but here's your chance to explain, but I am sure that it will be met with " I dont have to explain, race the class or not".... Its BS Kip....

I think that there are only like 7 bold lines.... of which half are targeted to the car that made the fastest pass.... so it shouldnt take you or the other guys that helped single it out to go over how the rule was introduced and the expected gain from adding the rule (I would try to make this one beleivable and specific) to benefit the class.

Dude I think the target here is the 60ft. Your car is Not fast enough to be a target yet. Your head probably don't fit thru the door anymore.
You never made peer tech or even popped the hood "the only car that didn't" at bg so who knows what you have on the car. Give it a rest . Same group Whining and bitching every rule change.
 
Dude I think the target here is the 60ft. Your car is Not fast enough to be a target yet. Your head probably don't fit thru the door anymore.
You never made peer tech or even popped the hood "the only car that didn't" at bg so who knows what you have on the car. Give it a rest . Same group Whining and bitching every rule change.

So the target was where I was beating most.... nice...no wonder everyone was so interested in my 60ft....so change the rules to take my car out.... gotcha...

Oh and my hood was popped in the stagings lanes and the pits during that race due to the hot lapping.....

But you probably didnt see that since you were fielding "phone calls" about another racer that has already had to teardown his turbo at one race b/c " he was cheating some how" and then was ambushed in the staging lanes and car searched for Nitrous ... thats the race your talking about right... and nothing was found.... maybe yall out to get together and make a rule to say no silver cars with black bumpers to get him out of that class....:rolleyes:

Oh snap... its the same group of people targeting cars out of the same garage. :eek:
 
So what exatcly has changed?


I am understanding that factory parts are being forced back on:confused:
 
Guys

Can i ask a question?

Why is it a must for the stock A-arms to be on the car?

But one can have fiberglass bumpers?

If one wants to target nose weight why not tell them they have to run the stock bumpers.

hell take it one step further and add the sway bars abck in the stock locations.

Afterall this is a street class as someone mentioned in the comment about the fuel pump and filters being seen from behind the car.

I don't have a fast car in this fight.but it still counts me out due to having tubular upper A-arms.


I did participate in the THS race @ BG i couldn't make the reynolds event due to a loss in oil pressure.
 
So what exatcly has changed?


I am understanding that factory parts are being forced back on:confused:



Shane, rule clarifications/ changes are in bold type in slow91z's post after Don asked for it to be done that way. Factory parts are not being forced back on. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Example of this is Sean had a fiberglass hood at BG which the rules stated were not allowed, Ed gave him a warning and explained to him it was not allowed and that he would have to change it in the future if he wanted to race in the class. No forcing anyone and I think more than fair in that situation.


Hope that helps, Kip
 
So the target was where I was beating most.... nice...no wonder everyone was so interested in my 60ft....so change the rules to take my car out.... gotcha...

Oh and my hood was popped in the stagings lanes and the pits during that race due to the hot lapping.....

Oh snap... its the same group of people targeting cars out of the same garage. :eek:


Sean, for the record I have no idea what you sixty footed at BG.

On the hood no being popped I had several people mention that they could not tech your car because the hood was always down. Even had email after the race pretaining to it. I told everyone the same thing you should have told him you needed to see the car and ask him to raise the hood. If you continue to race with us and peole really care I am sure they will do this.

You have mentioned the same garage a couple times so I guess I will bite, what garage is that??

Thanks, Kip
 
2011 Turbo Hot Street Rules

General

1. THS will be run with a “heads-up” pro tree start and off of a pro ladder.
2. No peer technical inspections relating to safety equipment rules by class participants or peers. The track safety personnel will make all final rulings on safety related items.
3. Any vehicle is subject to being re-weighed and re-inspected (tech) immediately after the final round of eliminations or any other time deemed necessary by the Race Rules Administrator (RRA).
4. Any entrant caught deliberately breaking the rules or deliberately attempting to break the rules or breeches that violate the spirit of competition will be disqualified from THS.
5. All rules subject to revision at the end of the race season.

Chassis & Exterior

1. Lights, horn and windshield wipers must be operational.
2. Aftermarket fiberglass or carbon fiber bumpers and bumper filler panels are allowed.
3. MINIMUM vehicle weight including the driver MUST be at least 3500-pounds for a vehicle equipped with IRON heads and 3650-pounds for a vehicle equipped with ALUMINUM heads.
4. Complete stock and painted T-Type, Turbo Regal, Grand National or 1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am body required.
5. No fiberglass or carbon fiber body parts unless otherwise specified.
6. Stock wheelbase is required.
7. The engine and the firewall must be in the stock location.
8. Stock operable door glass windows, glass quarter windows (where applicable), glass front and rear windshields are required. No lexan.
9. Factory stock suspension locations required with any type stock location shock absorbers.
10. Stock front control arms required.
11. Any suspension stabilizer/ reinforcement bars or traction enhancing devices are allowed.
12. Sway bars may be removed.
13. No ladder bars or coil-over equipped rear suspensions.
14. Stock style coil springs required.
15. Outer frame rail notching is allowed. Inner frame rails must remain in the stock location.
16. Reinforcement at the inner rear frame rail is allowed.
17. No quarter panel modifications except rolled inner lips.
18. Minor modifications to the stock rear wheel wells allowed but no mini tubs.
19. Factory stock appearing front inner wheel wells required. Trimming for downpipe clearance is allowed.
20. No wheelie bars.
21. The brake system must be Power Master, Hydroboost, vacuum boosted, or manual brakes allowed.
22. A brake system line-lock is allowed.
23. The driver’s name on the side window is allowed. Sponsor or vendor decal(s) are acceptable on the rear window and rear quarter glass windows (where applicable).
24. A maximum of two (2) hood mounted gauges are allowed.
25. The Turbo Trans Am must use the factory production stock K-member.

Engine

1. Any production Buick V6 engine that was available from the factory in a passenger vehicle is allowed.
2. No Stage 1 or 2 iron or aluminum heads or engines are allowed.
3. Any type of valve covers and oil pan is allowed.
4. The factory stock intake manifold or cast intake manifold (i.e. Champion or BG Customs) are allowed. External welding, cold epoxy welding or puttying for performance enhancement is not allowed. An EGR block-off plate is allowed.
5. The factory coil pack bracket and right windshield wiper rod may be modified for clearance IF using an aftermarket cast intake manifold.
6. The factory stock plenum with a spacer or aftermarket cast aluminum intake plenum is allowed.
7. Any size single modified stock or aftermarket throttle body is allowed. Only a single throttle plate is allowed.
8. Any type stock location exhaust headers are allowed. EGT guage probe bungs that are welded into the headers are allowed.
9. Any single or dual exhaust system (3.5” diameter max for either) is allowed. Systems used must muffle and exit in the stock location(s). A closed (muffled) exhaust must be used during eliminations and qualifications.
10. Any diameter downpipe size (from the turbo) is allowed. The downpipe must be routed through the stock location. No flex pipe is allowed.

Turbo

1. All turbochargers, including billet wheel turbochargers, meeting the below listed specifications available prior to January 1st of 2010 are allowed.
2. One (1) 3-bolt turbo mounted and oriented in the factory stock position is allowed.
3. The largest turbo compressor available up to and including 67mm is allowed. The maximum opening size anywhere on the compressor housing inducer must be less than 68.5mm. One (1) single compressor opening only is allowed. No internal ported shrouds are allowed.
4. The compressor housing must have a three (3) inch INLET and a two (2) inch OUTLET (i.e. 3” x 2”).
5. The turbine housing must be a 3-bolt housing that was commercially available on or before January 1st of 2010. The factory stock appearing turbine exhaust to downpipe connection must be used.
6. Any wastegate configuration is acceptable, as long as it is routed back into the exhaust system prior to the mufflers.

Intercooler
1. Any stock location or front mounted air-to-air intercooler is allowed.
2. A front mounted intercooler may not extend below the bottom of the stock located radiator support. This does not apply to the front mounted intercooler piping.
3. No liquid intercoolers, intercooler external spray cooling or add-on cold boxes are allowed.

Engine Management & Fuel System

1. A stock or modified stock ECM or an aftermarket engine management system (i.e. FAST XFI, Accel DFI, MoTec, etcetera) is allowed.
2. A factory stock appearing (Type I or Type II) DIS cam position sensor is required.
3. No individual coil-per-sparkplug type ignitions are allowed.
4. No distributor ignitions are allowed.
5. Any air induction system is allowed but no hood scoops.
6. Any type of fuel pump(s), pump(s) configuration are allowed.
7. Voltage increasing and fuel pump “hot wiring” devices are allowed.
8. Factory stock or aftermarket fuel rails are allowed. Modification to rails (either type) is allowed.
9. Any type of fuel pressure regulator is allowed. Any fuel injectors are allowed up to a maximum of seven (7) injectors. The seventh (7th) injector MUST get its fuel supply from the fuel rails.
10. Factory stock fuel tank with a sump addition is allowed.
11. Fuel Pump and Fuel Filters cannot be visible from the exterior of the vehicle.
12. Alcohol injection is allowed. It must enter the engine through the “up-pipe” of the air intake system.
13. Gasoline fuel only is allowed.
14. The use of nitrous oxide is NOT allowed.

Engine Compartment

1. The power steering must be operational, with the belt, in the stock location.
2. The stock alternator must be operational, with the belt, in the stock location.
3. Any engine compartment “dress-up” item is allowed.
4. The battery must be in the stock location.
5. Any stock or replacement radiator mounted in the stock location is allowed.
6. 1984-1985 Grand National/ T-Types, i.e. “Hot Air” cars, running in hot air configuration, may compete without factory installed air conditioning components. The factory heater box must remain intact.
7. Any car configured as a 1986-1987 Turbo T/ Grand National or 1989 Turbo Trans Am MUST have all factory installed air conditioning and heater components.

Transmission & Differential
1. Vehicle must use a 200-4R transmission to transmit power from the engine to the differential.
2. No other type of transmission is allowed.
3. Any torque converter is allowed.
4. Any transmission cooler and transmission pan is allowed.
5. A transmission brake is allowed.
6. Vehicle must have the factory 8.5” 10-bolt differential housing with a +/- allowance of one (1) inch. Turbo TransAms must use the factory production differential their vehicle was originally equipped with (with a +/- allowance of one (1) inch).
7. Use of a limited slip differential or a spool is allowed.
8. Any gear ratio with the factory stock or reinforced differential cover is allowed.

Tires & Wheels

1. Any matched set of four (4) chrome steel or aluminum wheels are allowed.
2. Rear drag slicks with a sidewall designation of up to and including 28”x10.5” are allowed. No “W” tires are allowed. Rear DOT street tires with a sidewall designation of up to and including 28”x12.5” are allowed. Rear DOT radial tires with a sidewall designation of up to and including 295-55 are allowed.
3. Rear tire footprint when installed on a rim and mounted on the vehicle cannot exceed a maximum width of 10.9” for DOT radial tires and 10.6” for drag slicks and rear DOT street tires, at 10 PSI checking pressure. Tires may not be shaved at the tread edge to meet the 10.9”/10.6” maximum tire width rule.
4. Front tire footprint must be at least 3.5” wide.

Interior

1. A full stock appearing interior is required.
2. Race seats are allowed only if the seats are attached to the rear crossbar of the roll bar (where applicable) AND the seats are painted and upholstered to match the factory interior.
3. Any transmission shifter is allowed.
4. Any type and number of additional gauges are allowed.

Shane, rule clarifications/ changes are in bold type in slow91z's post after Don asked for it to be done that way. Factory parts are not being forced back on. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Example of this is Sean had a fiberglass hood at BG which the rules stated were not allowed, Ed gave him a warning and explained to him it was not allowed and that he would have to change it in the future if he wanted to race in the class. No forcing anyone and I think more than fair in that situation.


Hope that helps, Kip

Okay, I missed that!

The hood I understand.

Why back up on all the suspension stuff? That was one thing about this class it opened up doors to many TR owners/potential racers. Alot of them have updated suspension to 21st century standards... This would be a big step back...

You have something good going on, I hope this doesn't hurt the future of the class... I understand your position of trying to keep cars close, stock suspension isn't the way to get there IMO though, good luck....
 
Okay, I missed that!

The hood I understand.

Why back up on all the suspension stuff? That was one thing about this class it opened up doors to many TR owners/potential racers. Alot of them have updated suspension to 21st century standards... This would be a big step back...

You have something good going on, I hope this doesn't hurt the future of the class... I understand your position of trying to keep cars close, stock suspension isn't the way to get there IMO though, good luck....

Shane, the rule has nothing to do with backing up it is about the looks of the car. I have always said I want this class to stand out from the others and not take anything from any other class. There is a class that allows these things with a stock block (TSM), so guys have a choice for which way they want to race their cars. Nobody is left out if they really want to heads up race at a Buick event.


Take care, Kip
 
Question ???? Is this Kip's class or the Racer's class?????

I am normally, a pretty easy going guy, I don't think any of you guys can argue that.

MY problems with all of this is WHY ARE WE BEING TOLD what the rules are , instead of at least having a SAY or VOTE in the Final dicesion.

Doesn't that make sense.

I think you all know with out racer's there's NO RACE!!!

It's so hard to believe that most of you like being TOLD what to do!

Kevin you are right, it is a choice to race or not but it sure would be nice if things could be DISCUSS before final rules are just posted.

If you take the time to look ,there are other classes that ASKED for input from Racer's that have raced to make Class RULES.

Why is my opinion or anyone else's not taken into consideration?

IT IS WHAT IT IS!!! is that the FINAL ANSWER!!

JD out!!
 
why not get rid of transbrakes or have to run a 275 highway approved drag radial only if its for street cars.



Here is the problem with outlawing transbrakes, how do you police?
Having a rule is one thing, enforcing it is a whole different problem. This why we have no cid limit in the class, we have no way to enforce it thus no sense in having the rule.

On the regular radial class, the class is already being tried no need for 2 true street tire classes.


Thanks, Kip
 
Why not just leave things alone???

To keep a few cars from running away from the rest. Kinda like what NASCAR does. The mid ten sec car owners may not show up if people start running 9.5s. A 9.8-10.5 field would be great imo..

The NASCAR racers may bitch about the rules but whenever I tune into a NASCAR race the cars usually seen pretty even to me.

Yeah run what you brung ...
As long as it fits the rules.


That's exactly what the fast guy's did!!!! and now that's what is forcing the rule change... :rolleyes:

Well look at the mess it's in now doing it off the internet!! The behind closed doors will never look right no matter what you do, it will always look like something is being hidden and that is Exactly what has happened here...

Your class, Your rules, Your approch to handling them....Hope it lasts!



There hasn't been an unattainable number yet. We have seen 9.9s up here and a couple of 9.8s at a fast track. Goal is to prevent much faster than that. No one fears the times run so far.


To answer both questions :

To stop a car or cars from going too fast like I've said numerous times. Its great with the spread there was in bg. First race someone goes 9.5....then the rules are enforced people will be crying like little girls That a racer was being targeted. If you prevent that from happening it will stop all the internet whining. A 9.5 car is going to do nothing good for the class but hurt turn out.


This is the underlying issue.

From the beginning of TSM until about 2006 I was out gunned. I kept at it. I kept going to the events. I kept supporting the races. (all of them) I participated. I kept working. I kept saving. I kept improving.

It takes dedication and hard work. If you change the rules people will just continue to push the envelope. If you leave the rules the same and people stay dedicated to the class you will see the field tighten up ET wise. Look at TSM now, you have so many cars running mid to low nines when a few years ago there were just two or three doing it and the #1 qualifier wasn't always the winner. Just like in THS at BG..


This was quoted from another thread from a few months ago showing exactly what was going to happen. No matter what the rules someone will push the limits. Sean pushed the limits and really put a lot of effort into his car to get the first 9 sec pass and the record only to have to make changes to his combination six months later if he wants to continue to race in that class. I hate to see his hard work and support of the class to be pushed away.

Sean, for the record I have no idea what you sixty footed at BG.

On the hood no being popped I had several people mention that they could not tech your car because the hood was always down. Even had email after the race pretaining to it. I told everyone the same thing you should have told him you needed to see the car and ask him to raise the hood. If you continue to race with us and peole really care I am sure they will do this.

You have mentioned the same garage a couple times so I guess I will bite, what garage is that??

Thanks, Kip
Sean was pitted next to me in the round track at BG and had his hood open alot between rounds. While he was in the staging lanes he didn't because he was getting ready to make a pass. There were a few people that looked at his car but no one really asked him to raise the hood. He would have gladly done that, just like I did in the staging lanes when I was asked to check my car for NOS. I didn't appreciate that but I did it and nothing was found.

BTW Kip, I think he was talking about my garage that includes a group of really talented racers and vendors.
 
I'm a THS wannabe... turbo too big, car too slow.

I have not talked to Kip or anyone else about this, but I think the changes will keep the class competitve. THS was based on the premise that just about anyone can come race it. It doesn't take a huge pile of money to be competitive and is really just about heads up racing. No points, no championship, just trying to get the win light against the other turbo buick in the other lane.

With unlimited $$$ resources, just about anyone can, source the parts, build a combo, buy the tuner and be very competitive/set records/win in any class for turbo buicks. If you don't beleive me, give me a million bucks and see if I dont win them all. That's not what THS was intended for. THS was intended for TR enthusiasts to have a good time competing against one another.

If you are the kind of person that has to be the best at XXXX no matter what, set and hold the record for XXXX, list all of your TR accomplishments in your sig to validate your self worth and to prove to others you know what you are doing...then THS probably isn't the right class for you.

Kip didn't want this class to take away from other classes or turn into a TSM lite class either. By enforcing rules that keep the class more competitive, he is doing just that.

If racers got to vote on changes, they would do anything they can to make their car faster, to give them a competitive edge and make the cars faster. If unchecked it might as well be TSM junior.
 
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