THS Rules- Redone See New Thread!

[TurboTnZ06]

Here is the problem with outlawing transbrakes, how do you police?
Having a rule is one thing, enforcing it is a whole different problem. This why we have no cid limit in the class, we have no way to enforce it thus no sense in having the rule.

On the regular radial class, the class is already being tried no need for 2 true street tire classes.


Thanks, Kip

You're right, that would be a headache to enforce even if you can pretty much tell a car that is leaving on a brake vs a foot brake since it hunkers down. Then you'd have to video each race in case someone was accused of pressing the button and replay the video.

The drag radial, I just meant DOT approved drag radials and ones where the manufacturer says it is ok for highway use, not the Hoosier's that are for race track use only. Since tires wear out it is an expected expense year after year.

Well, my Aeroquip TFE fuel lines and a bunch of AN fittings showed up today, time to go figure out how to run some lines

 

[SloGN]

Guys

Can i ask a question?

Why is it a must for the stock A-arms to be on the car?

But one can have fiberglass bumpers?

If one wants to target nose weight why not tell them they have to run the stock bumpers.

hell take it one step further and add the sway bars abck in the stock locations.

Afterall this is a street class as someone mentioned in the comment about the fuel pump and filters being seen from behind the car.

I don't have a fast car in this fight.but it still counts me out due to having tubular upper A-arms.


.

anyone?

 

[THE WRAITH]

I'm a THS wannabe... turbo too big, car too slow.

I have not talked to Kip or anyone else about this, but I think the changes will keep the class competitve. THS was based on the premise that just about anyone can come race it. It doesn't take a huge pile of money to be competitive and is really just about heads up racing. No points, no championship, just trying to get the win light against the other turbo buick in the other lane.

With unlimited $$$ resources, just about anyone can, source the parts, build a combo, buy the tuner and be very competitive/set records/win in any class for turbo buicks. If you don't beleive me, give me a million bucks and see if I dont win them all. That's not what THS was intended for. THS was intended for TR enthusiasts to have a good time competing against one another.

If you are the kind of person that has to be the best at XXXX no matter what, set and hold the record for XXXX, list all of your TR accomplishments in your sig to validate your self worth and to prove to others you know what you are doing...then THS probably isn't the right class for you.

Kip didn't want this class to take away from other classes or turn into a TSM lite class either. By enforcing rules that keep the class more competitive, he is doing just that.

If racers got to vote on changes, they would do anything they can to make their car faster, to give them a competitive edge and make the cars faster. If unchecked it might as well be TSM junior.

I find myself agreeing with you on the money part of this. But if you back up and look at it.... by changing the rules to hurt the 60ft basically you have given the guys with the money the edge as they can build alum headed strokers and just out motor you down the track... the most money biggest motor wins....Where if you leave it some what open to having guys with iron heads to gain some in the 60ft and hope like hell they can hold on to the lead on the big end....imo

 

[THE WRAITH]

anyone?

You are making perfect sense.... which is to much like right.

So what happens is that you ask questions and get ignored.

 

[THE WRAITH]

Shane, the rule has nothing to do with backing up it is about the looks of the car. I have always said I want this class to stand out from the others and not take anything from any other class. There is a class that allows these things with a stock block (TSM), so guys have a choice for which way they want to race their cars. Nobody is left out if they really want to heads up race at a Buick event.


Take care, Kip

If the car meets all the "2011" rules with the exception of the A-Arms why in the world would you think to eliminate those guys?

I will give you the hood clarification, and the fuel pump rule....

But the A-Arm rule is total bull........hands down....As "SloGN" has pointed out it makes no sense at all when you allow fiberglass bumpers.
Which builds in the arguement for the hood...but like i said I will give you that one for arguement sake...
It makes no sense at all when you allow frame notching. So that takes away from being a stock frame/looks with the frame cut out.
It makes no sense at all when you allow upper and lower trailing arms which takes away from allowing suspension parts. Not to mention rear roll bars/sway bars.



So I digress in to my original opening......

As you said you are not "forcing" anyone to change there car.... meaning that they "can just not race the class"...and enough people do that...Kip doesnt have a class....Not a good call...

Give the racers their opinion as it is there money they are spending to race this class..... at least then SloGN and JD can race....and all the others that you were not aware of that have tubular a arms.

I dont qualify even with the A arm rule removed. So you can call it task "Completed".

 

[Kip]

Guys

Can i ask a question?

Why is it a must for the stock A-arms to be on the car?

But one can have fiberglass bumpers?

If one wants to target nose weight why not tell them they have to run the stock bumpers.

hell take it one step further and add the sway bars abck in the stock locations.

Afterall this is a street class as someone mentioned in the comment about the fuel pump and filters being seen from behind the car.

I don't have a fast car in this fight.but it still counts me out due to having tubular upper A-arms.


I did participate in the THS race @ BG i couldn't make the reynolds event due to a loss in oil pressure.

Anybody can ask a question. The idea that nose weight and sixty foot was targeted came from others guessing, it had nothing to do with the rule decisions. Ed and I discussed not allowing fiberglass bumpers for this year.
Some people were saying leave everything the same and other were saying slow the class down. We went with clearing up some of the grey areas and some people are not happy with that. No matter what we did someone was going to be unhappy and I am sorry for that.

Thanks, Kip

 

[Kip]

If the car meets all the "2011" rules with the exception of the A-Arms why in the world would you think to eliminate those guys?

I will give you the hood clarification, and the fuel pump rule....

But the A-Arm rule is total bull........hands down....As "SloGN" has pointed out it makes no sense at all when you allow fiberglass bumpers.
Which builds in the arguement for the hood...but like i said I will give you that one for arguement sake...
It makes no sense at all when you allow frame notching. So that takes away from being a stock frame/looks with the frame cut out.
It makes no sense at all when you allow upper and lower trailing arms which takes away from allowing suspension parts. Not to mention rear roll bars/sway bars.



So I digress in to my original opening......

As you said you are not "forcing" anyone to change there car.... meaning that they "can just not race the class"...and enough people do that...Kip doesnt have a class....Not a good call...

Give the racers their opinion as it is there money they are spending to race this class..... at least then SloGN and JD can race....and all the others that you were not aware of that have tubular a arms.

I dont qualify even with the A arm rule removed. So you can call it task "Completed".

I am sure the fire works show is getting ready to start but here goes.
The idea was never to eliminate anybody. As much as youmight think people (or me) want you out of the class it is not that way.

I had no idea except the glass hood how you were affected. I can now speculate but still do not know for sure. If you want post up what stuff is now illegal on your car. If you would rather call me and we can discuss it.
If you need some stock parts to run the class and I have extra I will give them to you. My number is 812-280-1143.

You have mentioned the frame notch a couple, I get the feeling from you comment that you invision a frame cut and left wide open not recapped. That is not what I invision, to me that is an incomplete job and would take away from the looks of ones car.


Take care, Kip

 

[SloGN]

Anybody can ask a question. The idea that nose weight and sixty foot was targeted came from others guessing, it had nothing to do with the rule decisions. Ed and I discussed not allowing fiberglass bumpers for this year.
Some people were saying leave everything the same and other were saying slow the class down. We went with clearing up some of the grey areas and some people are not happy with that. No matter what we did someone was going to be unhappy and I am sorry for that.

Thanks, Kip

Kip.

Regardless of what you are tring to do here it seems stupid as hell to have the stock a-arm rule. but can allow fiberglass bumpers and mounts or no sway bars. Its a damn street Class. The A-arms are for street use, how about those bumpers? They will not pass a real state inspection.

I guess that my stock boxed rear arms are not permitted too? (those can be seen from the back of the car)

Slowing the class down is one thing but your targeting things that really don't matter.

If ya wanna slow the class down make it simple things like a smaller turbo or a even smaller tire like a 255 size tire.

I'm kinda late to the THS game but i'm starting to get a pretty clear picture as to what the hell is really going on.

 

[Detomaso71]

Kip.

Regardless of what you are tring to do here it seems stupid as hell to have the stock a-arm rule. but can allow fiberglass bumpers and mounts or no sway bars. Its a damn street Class. The A-arms are for street use, how about those bumpers? They will not pass a real state inspection.

I guess that my stock boxed rear arms are not permitted too? (those can be seen from the back of the car)

Slowing the class down is one thing but your targeting things that really don't matter.

If ya wanna slow the class down make it simple things like a smaller turbo or a even smaller tire like a 255 size tire.

I'm kinda late to the THS game but i'm starting to get a pretty clear picture as to what the hell is really going on.

A smaller turbo would be a good idea-if the goal is to make everyone quit unless precision can give away 10 to 20 free new turbos
That's way too much money and most already have 67s

 

[scot w.]

I was truly thinking of running THS this year but with all this rule changing and the way it was done made me change my mind. The last thing I want to do is take money and time to build a car to meet the rules then have them changed unexpectedly the following year. Plus the NEW rule of no tubular upper & lower A arms counts my street car out! This rule was put in place to slow 60 ft times right? Kip, Explain your theory on how that's going to happen, because my upper & lower A arms, sway bar, frame braces ADDED WEIGHT not reduced weight! Plus in all reality what in the world does A arms have to do with slowing a class down, Your explanation on this would be nice...


Scot W.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

No matter what we did someone was going to be unhappy and I am sorry for that.

Thanks, Kip

What about the vendors? In this dismal economy and interest in turbo 6's moving to LSX power, I'd say these classes should support as many innovative parts as vendors offer for our cars rather than outlaw them. The Turbo Buick community just gets smaller and smaller everyday.

Outlawing A-arms means you have to not only put on some stockers, but also might as well upgrade the bushings, put in a new ball joint or two, then take the car to an alignment $hop because these are street cars so they have to drive straight and not wear out tires. Then you have to sell the tubular a-arms and ship them on your lunch break. That's a lot of time and work for a car that has to make minimum weight anyways.

I have fiberglass bumpers and aluminum brackets and at the end of the day I still will have to put a few dead hookers in my trunk, plus that's going to be a lot of blow each weekend to make that happen (a corvetteforum off topic joke).

 

[Kip]

This rue was put in place to slow 60 ft times right? Kip, Explain your theory on how that's going to happen, because my upper & lower A arms, sway bar, frame braces ADDED WEIGHT not reduced weight! Plus in all reality what in the world does A arms have to do with slowing a class down, Your explanation on this would be nice...


Scot W.

Scot, I have been shocked that you have not been in this thread already. Old habits die hard. If you take the time to read the thread you will see the "targeting sixty foot" has already been covered.

Now to help you out a little in your in "want better handling" part of you signature you say "all the products were tested BUY" that word should be spelled BY. If you need help with big words like that again in the future let me know.


See ya, Kip

 

[scot w.]

Scot, I have been shocked that you have not been in this thread already. Old habits die hard. If you take the time to read the thread you will see the "targeting sixty foot" has already been covered.

Now to help you out a little in your in "want better handling" part of you signature you say "all the products were tested BUY" that word should be spelled BY. If you need help with big words like that again in the future let me know.


See ya, Kip

Yet another fine example of Old habits die hard! Instead of your smart childish comments why don't you just answer the question instead? Don't sweat it, your actions already answered them... Yeah it's already been covered and I read it just fine, what wasn't covered was WHY you think the A arm rule will slow the 60 foot!!

BTW: It would be "Your" not "you"!! See, everyone makes mistakes but not everyone is childish enough to point them out like you Mr. Grammar!! I Don't think I will be coming to you for those big words...

Keep up with the remarkable rule changes, Your doing a great job of keeping out the street cars in a street car class!


Have a nice day!
Scot W.

 

[Team Banana]

I like the way Kip is running this class. If he was running TSM we wouldn't of had to buy a turbo that don't fit the rules yet because nobody had the balls to tell a couple guy's "The plug don't fit your out".
Now it is being voted on what a joke. Why would you have to vote something in that fit the rule already.
You guy's are bitching at a guy that uses his time and money to give you a class to race.
You guy's should say thanks for your time and trouble Kip and make changes if they need to be made.
If ANYBODY that wants to run in this class needs a arms or springs I have both and will ship free. Pm me
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND TROUBLE KIP, ED!!!!!!

 

[BrownLimited]

i like the way kip is running this class. If he was running tsm we wouldn't of had to buy a turbo that don't fit the rules yet because nobody had the balls to tell a couple guy's "the plug don't fit your out".
Now it is being voted on what a joke. Why would you have to vote something in that fit the rule already.
You guy's are bitching at a guy that uses his time and money to give you a class to race.
You guy's should say thanks for your time and trouble kip and make changes if they need to be made.
If anybody that wants to run in this class needs a arms or springs i have both and will ship free. Pm me
thanks for your time and trouble kip, ed!!!!!!

nutswinger! /\ /\ /\ /\

 

[SloGN]

I like the way Kip is running this class. If he was running TSM we wouldn't of had to buy a turbo that don't fit the rules yet because nobody had the balls to tell a couple guy's "The plug don't fit your out".
Now it is being voted on what a joke. Why would you have to vote something in that fit the rule already.
You guy's are bitching at a guy that uses his time and money to give you a class to race.
You guy's should say thanks for your time and trouble Kip and make changes if they need to be made.
If ANYBODY that wants to run in this class needs a arms or springs I have both and will ship free. Pm me
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND TROUBLE KIP, ED!!!!!!

Well if the A-arms were such a problem why was it not a issue from the start of the class?

does the GSCA have any provisions on A-arms?

hell if you want to even a playing feild since there are a few 9 second rides in ths just make all of the cars weigh the same no matter if they have alum or iron heads 3500lbs..................


Something just don't make any sense of this..................................

 

[SloGN]

From 09

Turbo Hot Street – THS

General

- Heads-up pro tree start and pro ladder.
- No peer technical inspections relating to safety equipment rules by class participants or peers, track safety technician personnel will make all rulings on track safety related items.
- Any car is subject to re-weigh and re-tech immediately after final round or any other time.
- Any entrant caught trying to deliberately break the rules will be disqualified from the THS class.
- Nitrous Oxide not allowed.

Chassis/Exterior

- Seat belts, lights, horn, and windshield wipers must be operational.
- Aftermarket fiberglass or carbon fiber bumpers and bumper filler panels allowed.
- Minimum car weight w/driver must be at least 3500 pounds with iron heads, 3650 pounds with aluminum heads.
- Complete stock, painted Turbo Regal/Grand National body required.
- Stock wheelbase required (108.0” measured)
- Engine/firewall must be in the stock location.
- Stock operating glass windows and windshield required no lexan.
- Factory stock suspension locations required w/any type stock location shocks.
- Any suspension stabilizer/reinforcement bars or traction enhancing devices are allowed.
- Sway bars may be removed.
- No ladder bars or coil over equipped rear suspensions.
- Outer frame rails notching allowed. Inner frame rails remain in the stock location.
- Reinforcement at inner rear frame rail allowed.
- No quarter panel modifications except rolled inner lip.
- Minor modifications to stock rear wheel wells (no mini tubs).
- Factory stock appearing inner front wheel wells required. Trimming allowed for downpipe clearance.
- No wheelie bars.
- Brake system must be Power Master or vacuum boost operated, or manual brakes allowed.
- Brake system line locks allowed.
- Driveshaft safety loop required.
- Driver’s name on side window allowed. Sponsor/vendor decal is acceptable on the rear and quarter glass windows.
- A maximum of 2 hood mounted gauges are allowed.

Engine

- Stock 109 casting block.
- No Stage 2 iron or aluminum heads allowed.
- Any valve covers and oil pan allowed.
- Factory stock intake manifold or cast intake (BG Customs or Champion intake). External welding, cold weld epoxy, or putting not allowed. EGR block-off plate allowed.
- Factory coil pack bracket may be modified and right wiper rod maybe be modified for clearance if using an aftermarket cast intake.
- Factory stock plenum w/spacer or aftermarket cast aluminum intake plenum allowed.
- Any size single modified stock or aftermarket throttle body allowed. Single throttle plate only.
- Any type stock location exhaust headers are allowed Welded in EGT gauge probe bungs are allowed.
- Any single or dual exhaust system allowed. Must muffle and exit in stock location(s) (3.5” max size). Exhaust must run through mufflers in competition.
- Any diameter downpipe size from the turbo allowed. Downpipe must be routed down through the stock location, no flex pipe allowed.

Turbo

- One (1) 3-bolt turbo allowed and in the factory stock position/orientation.
- The largest allowable turbo compressor is up to and including 67mm. Maximum opening size anywhere on the compressor housing inducer must be less than 68.5mm. One single compressor opening only no internal ported shrouds.
- The compressor housing must be 3” inlet x 2” outlet.
- The turbine housing must be a 3 bolt housing that was available November 1 of the previous year. Factory stock appearing turbine exhaust to downpipe connection must be used.
- Any wastegate configuration acceptable, external wastegate(s) must be plumbed back into the exhaust system, no external dumps allowed.
- No billet wheel turbos allowed until the potential of these new turbos is known.

Intercooler

- Any stock location or front mount air to air intercooler is allowed.
- A front mount intercooler may not extend down below the bottom of the stock located radiator support. Not including the piping.
- No liquid intercoolers, intercooler external spray cooling, or add-on cold boxes allowed.

Engine Management & Fuel System

- Stock or modified stock ECM, aftermarket fuel management system (DFI, F.A.S.T., Motec, Etc.) are allowed.
- Factory Stock Appearing (Type I) or (Type II) DIS cam position sensor required.
- No individual coil per spark plug ignitions allowed.
- No distributor ignitions allowed.
- Any air induction system allowed, but no hood scoop.
- Any fuel pump(s) configuration/location allowed.
- Voltage increasing and fuel pump hot wiring devices are allowed.
- Factory stock fuel rail or aftermarket rails allowed. Aftermarket and stock fuel rails may be modified.
- Any type fuel pressure regulator allowed. Any fuel injectors allowed, 7 maximum. The 7th injector MUST get its fuel supply from the fuel rail.
- Factory stock fuel tank w/ sump addition allowed.
- Gasoline fuel only.
- Alcohol injection allowed, must be sprayed in through the air intake system “up-pipe”.

Engine Compartment

- All Air Conditioning and heater components installed and in the stock location w/belt in the stock location.
- Power steering operational w/belt in stock location.
- Stock alternator operational w/belt in stock location.
- Stock water pump operational w/belt in stock location.
- All engine accessories must be driven from the same belt.
- Any engine compartment dress-up allowed.
- Battery must be in the stock location.
- Any stock type/location electronic engine cooling fans allowed.
- Any stock or replacement radiator in stock location allowed.

Transmission

- Must have 200-4R transmission.
- Any torque converter allowed.
- Any transmission cooler and pan allowed.
- Transmission brake allowed.
- Must have 8.5” differential housing, +/- 1” allowance.
- Limited-slip differentials or spool allowed.
- Any gear ratio with factory stock or reinforced differential cover allowed.

Tires & Wheels

- Any matched set of (4), 15” diameter chrome steel or aluminum wheels allowed.
- Rear drag slicks w/sidewall designation up to and including 28” x 10.5” – 15”. No “W” tires allowed. Rear DOT street tires with sidewall designation up to and including 28” x 12.5” – 15” size tires allowed. Rear DOT Radial tires with sidewall designation up to and including 275/60/15 allowed. Rear tire footprint when installed on a rim and mounted on the car can not exceed a maximum of 10.6” in width at 10 psig checking pressure. Tires may not be shaved at the tread edge to meet the 10.6” maximum width rule.
- Front tire footprint must be at least 3.5” wide.

Interior

- Full stock appearing interior required.
- Race seats are allowed only if the seats are attached to the rear crossbar of the roll bar and seats are painted and upholstered to match the factory interior.
- Any transmission shifter allowed.
- Any additional aftermarket gauges allowed.

 

[KevinB]

Yet another fine example of Old habits die hard! Instead of your smart childish comments why don't you just answer the question instead? Don't sweat it, your actions already answered them... Yeah it's already been covered and I read it just fine, what wasn't covered was WHY you think the A arm rule will slow the 60 foot!!

BTW: It would be "Your" not "you"!! See, everyone makes mistakes but not everyone is childish enough to point them out like you Mr. Grammar!! I Don't think I will be coming to you for those big words...

Keep up with the remarkable rule changes, Your doing a great job of keeping out the street cars in a street car class!


Have a nice day!
Scot W.

What's wrong with the way its run? Its his class he can make up the rules. When racers are allowed to make the rules the cars will become race cars. Look at tsm. Each rule voted in usually brings the class further and further then what was originally attended. If you don't like the new rules or the way it is handled then start your own class. Oh, wait....weren't you bull headed about the front sway bar rule in your class? Didn't see you taking any votes when you tried to start That class.

 

[tsm3089]

i have seen 20 or more cars in tsm at bg. Now after the years of letting the racers vote on rules we had 4 cars tech and 2 broke. So be carefull what you wish for.

 

[Team Banana]

nutswinger! /\ /\ /\ /\

If we are going to start name calling, then get it right. It's nut hugger