THS Rules- Redone See New Thread!

[Kip]

Kip....Since we are divulging our communications and things that have been brought up.... I have several emails, phone calls, and messages about a guy that writes the rules that fit all his friends and then races the same class of which he makes rules to exclude guys that are faster than him....

So to re-cap... You say its YOUR class, YOU write the rules, they fit YOUR friends/customers interested in running, YOUR car has to change nothing to fit the rules, YOU race in the class that YOU write the rules for.......

So you understand how people other than myself view it......I can actually say that these other THS racers actually opened my eyes to these points..

You have a conflict of interest in so many ways that you can not be removed from

I guess these people who opened your eyes are dumb enough to think this is the first time in Buick history that a guy has raced a class he helped run????
To name a few: Scott Simpson, Lonnie Diers, Chris Lyons, Red Armstrong and Gary Harmon. If that is the best negative Kip arguement they can come up with they need some help.


Cheers, Kip

 

[SloGN]

As stated earlier the a arm thing is an asthetic choice only. And realy its the light weight TRZ's in question, but how do you exclude one and not the other? You cant so none are allowed.

please expalin to me why they are just a asthetic choice only. If thats the case why is there all of a sudden now a rule against it. There has yet to be a explanation on this that actually makes since.


It's like this there must be several people in THS that has swollen tender vagina's cause they got there @ss handed to them by a car with a tubular control arms and such.

So the best way to handle that is no tubular A-arms.


Can't put the stock bumpers back on to help add weight back to the front of a certain car no. Cause that means the entourage would have to put theirs back on as well.

 

[Team Banana]

please expalin to me why they are just a asthetic choice only. If thats the case why is there all of a sudden now a rule against it. There has yet to be a explanation on this that actually makes since.


It's like this there must be several people in THS that has swollen tender vagina's cause they got there @ss handed to them by a car with a tubular control arms and such.

So the best way to handle that is no tubular A-arms.


Can't put the stock bumpers back on to help add weight back to the front of a certain car no. Cause that means the entourage would have to put theirs back on as well.

We are part of that entourage and have stock bumpers. The car has been 9's at 23psi.
If you wanna have a little grudge match for some money we might turn it up for you or do we need to? You can run your a arms if you want. We will be at every event but the first two. Look us up.

 

[SGRIM]

If you wanna have a little grudge match for some money we might turn it up for you or do we need to? You can run your a arms if you want. We will be at every event but the first two. Look us up.

That open for anyone?

I am curious why you wouldn't attend the first two events?

 

[Kip]

That open for anyone?

Shane, this cool. I heard from a vendor on here just last week that you were looking at feilding a car in THS and did not know for sure if you were or not.
Wecome on board, it is a lot of fun.


See ya, Kip

 

[KevinB]

please expalin to me why they are just a asthetic choice only. If thats the case why is there all of a sudden now a rule against it. There has yet to be a explanation on this that actually makes since.


It's like this there must be several people in THS that has swollen tender vagina's cause they got there @ss handed to them by a car with a tubular control arms and such.

So the best way to handle kthat is no tubular A-arms.


Can't put the stock bumpers back on to help add weightj back to the front of a certain car no. Cause that means the entourage would have to put theirs back on as well.

Just to clear something up for the people who weren't at bg. No one has a swollen vag BC the car he is talking about didn't make it to the semi finals. So I wouldn't say it handed too many people their arse.

 

[V6POWER]

After reading all this, I don't understand why tubular A-arms aren't allowed, but a huge front mount is. Nothing screams 'race car' more than a front mount and I thought this class was all about having a car that looked like a street car. A front mount can clearly be seen with the hood down, but A-arms can't.

 

[NINE-5]

Im not understanding the big deal of this situatation. Does the A arms make your car faster, pop a bigger wheelie, what!?! I just like driving fast and then faster and doing whatever it takes to do that. I do understand if a person paid money for them and put them on; I wouldnt want to take them off either! For the love of racing and competing in these events, Im doing whatever it takes! I bought a brand new turbo and couldnt use it cause of the rules. I bought another one and said F it, LETS RACE!

 

[BrownLimited]

I like these rules

2011 Turbo Hot Street Rules

General

1. THS will be run with a “heads-up” pro tree start and off of a pro ladder.
2. No peer technical inspections relating to safety equipment rules by class participants or peers. The track safety personnel will make all final rulings on safety related items.
3. Any vehicle is subject to being re-weighed and re-inspected (tech) immediately after the final round of eliminations or any other time deemed necessary by the Race Rules Administrator (RRA).
4. Any entrant caught deliberately breaking the rules or deliberately attempting to break the rules or breeches that violate the spirit of competition will be disqualified from THS.
5. All rules subject to revision at the end of the race season.

Chassis & Exterior

1. Lights, horn and windshield wipers must be operational.

Just in case it starts raining while racing

2. Aftermarket fiberglass or carbon fiber bumpers and bumper filler panels are allowed.

And this one has nothing to do with a safe street car

3. MINIMUM vehicle weight including the driver MUST be at least 3500-pounds for a vehicle equipped with IRON heads and 3650-pounds for a vehicle equipped with ALUMINUM heads.
4. Complete stock and painted T-Type, Turbo Regal, Grand National or 1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am body required.
5. No fiberglass or carbon fiber body parts unless otherwise specified.
6. Stock wheelbase is required.
7. The engine and the firewall must be in the stock location.
8. Stock operable door glass windows, glass quarter windows (where applicable), glass front and rear windshields are required. No lexan.
9. Factory stock suspension locations required with any type stock location shock absorbers.
10. Stock front control arms required.
11. Any suspension stabilizer/ reinforcement bars or traction enhancing devices are allowed.
12. Sway bars may be removed.
13. No ladder bars or coil-over equipped rear suspensions.
14. Stock style coil springs required.
15. Outer frame rail notching is allowed. Inner frame rails must remain in the stock location.
16. Reinforcement at the inner rear frame rail is allowed.
17. No quarter panel modifications except rolled inner lips.
18. Minor modifications to the stock rear wheel wells allowed but no mini tubs.
19. Factory stock appearing front inner wheel wells required. Trimming for downpipe clearance is allowed.
20. No wheelie bars.
21. The brake system must be Power Master, Hydroboost, vacuum boosted, or manual brakes allowed.
22. A brake system line-lock is allowed.
23. The driver’s name on the side window is allowed. Sponsor or vendor decal(s) are acceptable on the rear window and rear quarter glass windows (where applicable).
24. A maximum of two (2) hood mounted gauges are allowed.
25. The Turbo Trans Am must use the factory production stock K-member.

Engine

1. Any production Buick V6 engine that was available from the factory in a passenger vehicle is allowed.
2. No Stage 1 or 2 iron or aluminum heads or engines are allowed.
3. Any type of valve covers and oil pan is allowed.
4. The factory stock intake manifold or cast intake manifold (i.e. Champion or BG Customs) are allowed. External welding, cold epoxy welding or puttying for performance enhancement is not allowed. An EGR block-off plate is allowed.
5. The factory coil pack bracket and right windshield wiper rod may be modified for clearance IF using an aftermarket cast intake manifold.
6. The factory stock plenum with a spacer or aftermarket cast aluminum intake plenum is allowed.
7. Any size single modified stock or aftermarket throttle body is allowed. Only a single throttle plate is allowed.
8. Any type stock location exhaust headers are allowed. EGT guage probe bungs that are welded into the headers are allowed.
9. Any single or dual exhaust system (3.5” diameter max for either) is allowed. Systems used must muffle and exit in the stock location(s). A closed (muffled) exhaust must be used during eliminations and qualifications.
10. Any diameter downpipe size (from the turbo) is allowed. The downpipe must be routed through the stock location. No flex pipe is allowed.

Turbo

1. All turbochargers, including billet wheel turbochargers, meeting the below listed specifications available prior to January 1st of 2010 are allowed.
2. One (1) 3-bolt turbo mounted and oriented in the factory stock position is allowed.
3. The largest turbo compressor available up to and including 67mm is allowed. The maximum opening size anywhere on the compressor housing inducer must be less than 68.5mm. One (1) single compressor opening only is allowed. No internal ported shrouds are allowed.
4. The compressor housing must have a three (3) inch INLET and a two (2) inch OUTLET (i.e. 3” x 2”).
5. The turbine housing must be a 3-bolt housing that was commercially available on or before January 1st of 2010. The factory stock appearing turbine exhaust to downpipe connection must be used.
6. Any wastegate configuration is acceptable, as long as it is routed back into the exhaust system prior to the mufflers.

Intercooler
1. Any stock location or front mounted air-to-air intercooler is allowed.

And nothing as obvious as a front mount to scream "Race car"

2. A front mounted intercooler may not extend below the bottom of the stock located radiator support. This does not apply to the front mounted intercooler piping.
3. No liquid intercoolers, intercooler external spray cooling or add-on cold boxes are allowed.

Engine Management & Fuel System

1. A stock or modified stock ECM or an aftermarket engine management system (i.e. FAST XFI, Accel DFI, MoTec, etcetera) is allowed.
2. A factory stock appearing (Type I or Type II) DIS cam position sensor is required.
3. No individual coil-per-sparkplug type ignitions are allowed.
4. No distributor ignitions are allowed.
5. Any air induction system is allowed but no hood scoops.
6. Any type of fuel pump(s), pump(s) configuration and location(s) are allowed.
7. Voltage increasing and fuel pump “hot wiring” devices are allowed.
8. Factory stock or aftermarket fuel rails are allowed. Modification to rails (either type) is allowed.
9. Any type of fuel pressure regulator is allowed. Any fuel injectors are allowed up to a maximum of seven (7) injectors. The seventh (7th) injector MUST get its fuel supply from the fuel rails.
10. Factory stock fuel tank with a sump addition is allowed.
11. Fuel Pump and Fuel Filters cannot be visible from the exterior of the vehicle.
12. Alcohol injection is allowed. It must enter the engine through the “up-pipe” of the air intake system.
13. Gasoline fuel only is allowed.
14. The use of nitrous oxide is NOT allowed.

Engine Compartment

1. The power steering must be operational, with the belt, in the stock location.
2. The stock alternator must be operational, with the belt, in the stock location.
3. Any engine compartment “dress-up” item is allowed.
4. The battery must be in the stock location.
5. Any stock or replacement radiator mounted in the stock location is allowed.
6. 1984-1985 Grand National/ T-Types, i.e. “Hot Air” cars, running in hot air configuration, may compete without factory installed air conditioning components. The factory heater box must remain intact.
7. Any car configured as a 1986-1987 Turbo T/ Grand National or 1989 Turbo Trans Am MUST have all factory installed air conditioning and heater components.

Transmission & Differential
1. Vehicle must use a 200-4R transmission to transmit power from the engine to the differential.
2. No other type of transmission is allowed.
3. Any torque converter is allowed.
4. Any transmission cooler and transmission pan is allowed.
5. A transmission brake is allowed.
6. Vehicle must have the factory 8.5” 10-bolt differential housing with a +/- allowance of one (1) inch. Turbo TransAms must use the factory production differential their vehicle was originally equipped with (with a +/- allowance of one (1) inch).
7. Use of a limited slip differential or a spool is allowed.
8. Any gear ratio with the factory stock or reinforced differential cover is allowed.

Tires & Wheels

1. Any matched set of four (4) chrome steel or aluminum wheels are allowed.
2. Rear drag slicks with a sidewall designation of up to and including 28”x10.5” are allowed. No “W” tires are allowed. Rear DOT street tires with a sidewall designation of up to and including 28”x12.5” are allowed. Rear DOT radial tires with a sidewall designation of up to and including 295-55 are allowed.
3. Rear tire footprint when installed on a rim and mounted on the vehicle cannot exceed a maximum width of 10.9” for DOT radial tires and 10.6” for drag slicks and rear DOT street tires, at 10 PSI checking pressure. Tires may not be shaved at the tread edge to meet the 10.9”/10.6” maximum tire width rule.
4. Front tire footprint must be at least 3.5” wide.

Interior

1. A full stock appearing interior is required.
2. Race seats are allowed only if the seats are attached to the rear crossbar of the roll bar (where applicable) AND the seats are painted and upholstered to match the factory interior.
3. Any transmission shifter is allowed.
4. Any type and number of additional gauges are allowed.

Sean don't let them know you have manual windows either. oops

 

[Detomaso71]

We are part of that entourage and have stock bumpers. The car has been 9's at 23psi.
If you wanna have a little grudge match for some money we might turn it up for you or do we need to? You can run your a arms if you want. We will be at every event but the first two. Look us up.

I saw this car runs high nines, don't know the PSI but funny thing was no helmet and on the cell phone placing bets on some horses on the pass!!

 

[ghostv8]

After reading all this, I don't understand why tubular A-arms aren't allowed, but a huge front mount is. Nothing screams 'race car' more than a front mount and I thought this class was all about having a car that looked like a street car. A front mount can clearly be seen with the hood down, but A-arms can't.

They made the 2010 rules around certain cars - someone else outside of their group beat them to the number.... so, because it's selected rules for certain cars they have to try eliminate the competition in a sly backroom way.

btw Red Armstrong wanna-be Kip (no offence to Red), My arguement does hold water - We all know how you acted @ the TB.com Nationals last year. We all know who didn't come to Reynolds in November 2010. We know what happened in another class as well.
The same drama, the same group, just a different day. What you dish out, you should be able to take.

 

[SloGN]

We are part of that entourage and have stock bumpers. The car has been 9's at 23psi.
If you wanna have a little grudge match for some money we might turn it up for you or do we need to? You can run your a arms if you want. We will be at every event but the first two. Look us up.

No need to race for money. Most of the guys are faster than me in the THS class as i only netted a 10.77 in BG. I'm still creeping up on the tune and i have still got a ways to go to actually be competative.

But i got put on the trailer by someone out running me. I'm kewl with that as thats how racing goes.


But making rules to put someone out of a class that is on top of their game or that you just don't like them is wrong. (as this is exactly whats happened)


I'll just watch from the side lines instead.

Enjoy it why it lasts.

 

[Kip]

They made the 2010 rules around certain cars - someone else outside of their group beat them to the number.... so, because it's selected rules for certain cars they have to try eliminate the competition in a sly backroom way.

btw Red Armstrong wanna-be Kip (no offence to Red), My arguement does hold water - We all know how you acted @ the TB.com Nationals last year. We all know who didn't come to Reynolds in November 2010. We know what happened in another class as well.
The same drama, the same group, just a different day. What you dish out, you should be able to take.

What is this magic number people keep talking about????

How did I act at the TB.com Nats? Me and Ed came down there on our own dime, gave out goodie bags and trophies to the THS racers just to help support the class. Do you have some problem with that? They must not as they were the first ones to call thus year to ask if we would have the class there in 2011.

You talk about me not going to Reynolds this year like it is a big deal. Did I hurt that event that much by not being there??? Did you make all the Buick events this year???

see ya, Kip

 

[DCVING 6]

What is this magic number people keep talking about????

How did I act at the TB.com Nats? Me and Ed came down there on our own dime, gave out goodie bags and trophies to the THS racers just to help support the class. Do you have some problem with that? They must not as they were the first ones to call thus year to ask if we would have the class there in 2011.

You talk about me not going to Reynolds this year like it is a big deal. Did I hurt that event that much by not being there??? Did you make all the Buick events this year???

see ya, Kip

Kip you have a PM.

 

[jdsgnx]

I have said this to Kip already, most peoples perception of whats going on,is what they believe, human nature.

JD

 

[ghostv8]

What is this magic number people keep talking about????How did I act at the TB.com Nats? Me and Ed came down there on our own dime, gave out goodie bags and trophies to the THS racers just to help support the class. Do you have some problem with that? They must not as they were the first ones to call thus year to ask if we would have the class there in 2011.You talk about me not going to Reynolds this year like it is a big deal. Did I hurt that event that much by not being there??? Did you make all the Buick events this year???see ya, Kip

Didn't you set up a vendor booth without paying like all the legitimate businesses did that showed up for the TB nats?? Yep. Didn't you bitch out Shane because he was going to charge you the fee?? Yep

I never said anything about a magic number, go take your pills, you're seeing things.

I have been to more races and supported more Buick events in the past 4 years than you, and I don't race the Buick classes - I stepped up my game.

I never said "you" with anything to do with Reynolds. Why do you read something else into what was written? I said "they". Do you spell "you" with a t in it?

You couldn't hang in TSM or TSE so you made another class, which is fine, we all have to back up and punt sometimes. Now that you and your buds can't hang, you start changing the rules. It's plain and simple and everyone see's it. Just be a real man and say what you mean.

You don't have to try to change the subject when asked a question or when something that is wrong has been pointed out. You don't have to talk behind people's backs when you can answer the phone, emails, and text when they try to talk to you. Instead you stoop down the the level of dirt and do things that do not promote your "own" class.

Why not instead try this...... Answer the phone and talk. Answer your emails. Answer your Text. You cause more drama by not. If there is a question asked of you on here, answer it also instead of typing the ever changing spin you put on things.

 

[KevinB]

Josh why do you care so much about ths? You don't race the class. Just curious. Seems like you already degrade the class because you said it was made because people couldn't hang with tsm. Don't make sense to me why you would give two sh!ts about an inferior class.

 

[ghostv8]

Josh why do you care so much about ths? You don't race the class. Just curious. Seems like you already degrade the class because you said it was made because people couldn't hang with tsm. Don't make sense to me why you would give two sh!ts about an inferior class.

Why do I care? I care because I have been messing with Turbo Buicks since 1989. I care about the cars, I care about the classes, I care about keeping apart of American history going.

There are 2 classes where in 2010, there always seems to be drama. It (the drama) should stop, that is the bottom line.

The truth is, Kevin, this class was made because Dick, Don and Jason run 9:00's consistantly. Most of the field in TSM are in the high 9's. So, yes this class was made for cars or people that didn't want to step up or couldn't afford to step up. You have even said that yourself. You even told me you were tired of blowing up engines trying to hang with Jason. Did you forget that?

The b.s. that goes on behind the scenes is what really gets me. I have seen it way too much. It has to stop. If it doesn't, these Buick classes and events will die.

Yes, I care Kevin. Yes Kevin I give two $hits. I want to see the classes grow. I would like to see 30 or 40 cars in each class. That will not happen with the low down dirt that has been going on.
`

 

[SGRIM]

The b.s. that goes on behind the scenes is what really gets me. I have seen it way too much. It has to stop. If it doesn't, these Buick classes and events will die.


`

Now that is the truth...

 

[ghostv8]

BTW, Kevin I do help with Sean's car, Jason's car, Randy's car, and a few others that show up for Buick events. I have helped many others at different times at these events, not just the Pine Tree Posse. Even you have asked for help before from our crew. Were you turned down? No. Did we hate on you? No. So what gives?
Plus, Why would I ride/drive for 15+ plus hours to most of the Buick events 4,5, 6 times a year if I didn't care?