You can type here any text you want

turbo manufacturers

Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

jlat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
3,277
hello people; Does anyone know how many TM are out there? I just got given a Hot Rod mag. In it there's an article on "how to buy your first turbo". Not really much help to me but I read it. There sources came from Garrett (seem to be the biggest TM), Precision, Turbonetics and a new one to me Exile.
Also why so expensive?
Recently on 60 minutes (TV show) they had a pc. on eye glass frames and how 1 Italian factory basically makes em all. Also controlling the prices. Maybe the TM are doing the same?
IBBY
 
Well, I know this from being a high tolerance toolmaker for 21 years now. The new billet wheels are made on 5 axis CNC machines. The machines themselves cost about $750,000 or more. The tooling and fixturing is another $250,000. Then the 3D programming and modeling software can cost up to $50,000 PER COMPUTER and the computer to run it on is another $10,000. Add in machine maintenance, and a temperature controlled atmosphere for the machine to accurately hold tolerances, and your done. That's just for 1 machine...
Diamond coated cutters in diameters as small as 0.0325 are $150-250 each. They cut for about 15-20hrs and then they get pitched out.
Is this starting to add up? This is just for the billet compressor wheels. Now add in casting the exhaust housings, compressor housings, bearing center castings, shafts...
I think turbos are pretty cheap for what goes into making them...but I really know what that is and many do not.

Thanks
Coach

Oh, and a tube of grease for our machine is ....$500. It gets greased every 1000 hrs of machine time...and it runs 16-20hrs a day.
We have 2 of them.
 
hello; I'm no tool maker but I've been around the shop in a different way. These companies with those mach. do not just make one thing. There're open for business what ever it might be. If these TM all have there own equipment I'd say yes you're right. I don't know if it's true.? All I know there not cheap.
IBBY
 
There are a few major players in the turbo market. Garrett, Borg Warner, and Holsett for the most part. All used by oem's. Just about all the rest would be considered "micro" breweries as a general comparison. IMO the performance turbos are a lot cheaper than would be expected. If you understood anything about what's involved to produce these products you would probably agree. If it wasn't for overseas/south of the border labor these turbochargers would be about 3 times as expensive as they are now. Overseas manufacturing still has a grey cloud over it due to quality control issues. The truth is the correct overseas manufacturer can produce product that is as good as anyone else can produce. Finding a good overseas manufacturing company that can produce quality critical components can be very rewarding to a smart business owner.
 
hello; I think I might understand a little on how there made and we pay for it. With more turbo'd powered cars comming into play maybe it'll change.
Are the Exile people new to the arena?
IBBY
 
hello; I'm no tool maker but I've been around the shop in a different way. These companies with those mach. do not just make one thing. There're open for business what ever it might be. If these TM all have there own equipment I'd say yes you're right. I don't know if it's true.? All I know there not cheap.
IBBY
Im not saying you understand, and im not saying you dont. All I know is 99% of people think in terms of 1 turbo being made. You have to put it in terms of batch sizes for each run. Whether they own the machine or not...they are paying to use it. I know machine rate on our 3 axis machines is close to $100 hr. They still have to supply the material and the material for the billet wheels is probably stress check, x-ray'd, and stress relieved. So now instead of just off the shelf material...you add those costs in. Your also forgetting that each size wheel is a different set up. We have a $20,000 laser on each of our machines that checks each cutter for correct size and to see if it is balanced to run at 30,000 rpm's and cut straight.
I'll give you a simple example. We built a tool for FORD that makes the windshield squirter nozzels that fit on the hood of their vans. Now these are windshield squirters!!! It makes 16 pieces at a time and the tool costs...$275,000 to make. Thats the cost of a stupid little plastic part that will only get used on 1 model of 1 make of van.
 
coach said:
Im not saying you understand, and im not saying you dont. All I know is 99% of people think in terms of 1 turbo being made. You have to put it in terms of batch sizes for each run. Whether they own the machine or not...they are paying to use it. I know machine rate on our 3 axis machines is close to $100 hr. They still have to supply the material and the material for the billet wheels is probably stress check, x-ray'd, and stress relieved. So now instead of just off the shelf material...you add those costs in. Your also forgetting that each size wheel is a different set up. We have a $20,000 laser on each of our machines that checks each cutter for correct size and to see if it is balanced to run at 30,000 rpm's and cut straight.
I'll give you a simple example. We built a tool for FORD that makes the windshield squirter nozzels that fit on the hood of their vans. Now these are windshield squirters!!! It makes 16 pieces at a time and the tool costs...$275,000 to make. Thats the cost of a stupid little plastic part that will only get used on 1 model of 1 make of van.
The overseas rate for a 5 axis on niche is $3-7usd/min. I'd guess on 100 or more of the same it would probably drop down to $1-2/min. the run time is upwards of 45 minutes per. Those wheels produced here would be $600-700 each at the retail level.
 
bison said:
The overseas rate for a 5 axis on niche is $3-7usd/min. I'd guess on 100 or more of the same it would probably drop down to $1-2/min. the run time is upwards of 45 minutes per. Those wheels produced here would be $600-700 each at the retail level.

I can tell you this for sure. The guys who program the machines here will run them twice as fast as the overseas operators. It would not take as long to make. They pay such a low labor costs, it's important to have almost no scrap. They make their $$$ on the fact that they run 3-4 machines per man. They have one man programming every 3-4. They have 3 shifts...24/7 and the machines never stop. They are always man'd. Our machines are run un-man'd because that's our biggest competitive edge. Also, we pay close attention to speeds and feeds of each type of cutter. Most overseas do not. They would rather use several cutters at half speed then run one cutter at full speed and get it's entire life out of it. They have endless amounts of labor, but no training. We have gone head to head with the best shops over there and it's still no comparison. That's why we are still working 60+ hrs a week and my machine runs 120hrs unattended. I'm getting ready to leave for today, and my robot EDM will run until I come in tomorrow. Then I will spend tomorrow setting it up and it will run until Monday morning. That's the only way we stay in business with the threat of overseas companies.
I bet they make 2-3 wheels before they get 1 good one. I've seen it over and over for the last 8-10 years.
 
hello; I know turbos's started with aircraft in WW II.. That was along time ago as what I've heard most of those vets are gone. From what's been learned thru the years and with all these great machines a turbo should be able to be made with precision and consumer cost friendly. IMO that makes sence but that's me.
IBBY
 
coach said:
I can tell you this for sure. The guys who program the machines here will run them twice as fast as the overseas operators. It would not take as long to make. They pay such a low labor costs, it's important to have almost no scrap. They make their $$$ on the fact that they run 3-4 machines per man. They have one man programming every 3-4. They have 3 shifts...24/7 and the machines never stop. They are always man'd. Our machines are run un-man'd because that's our biggest competitive edge. Also, we pay close attention to speeds and feeds of each type of cutter. Most overseas do not. They would rather use several cutters at half speed then run one cutter at full speed and get it's entire life out of it. They have endless amounts of labor, but no training. We have gone head to head with the best shops over there and it's still no comparison. That's why we are still working 60+ hrs a week and my machine runs 120hrs unattended. I'm getting ready to leave for today, and my robot EDM will run until I come in tomorrow. Then I will spend tomorrow setting it up and it will run until Monday morning. That's the only way we stay in business with the threat of overseas companies.
I bet they make 2-3 wheels before they get 1 good one. I've seen it over and over for the last 8-10 years.

The over seas companies that are thriving are running on those principles. We went over there and showed them how to do it
 
hello; I know turbos's started with aircraft in WW II.. That was along time ago as what I've heard most of those vets are gone. From what's been learned thru the years and with all these great machines a turbo should be able to be made with precision and consumer cost friendly. IMO that makes sence but that's me.
IBBY
Actually the turbo dates back to the late 1800s but took quite a few years for them to get it to work. By the 1920s they were used on diesels and aircraft.
 
hello; I wonder what those early turbos looked like? Got any pics?
Tell me if this is true. I heard that the designer of the Deisel engine was American but it was going no where here. He went overseas and perfected it.
IBBY
 
Back
Top