Turbo Regals are drivers.

[Skids]

So my buddy has an '87 GN. It has about 80,000 miles on it and he has had cheepo mechanic style seat covers on it since day one. It's a bit of a paradox, he drives it every day, wearing out the driveline, but is meticulous about the interior, and will not mod the car in any way.....because it's a collector. I tell him that Jax Seat Covers make excellent reproductions, and that everything on his car can be replaced with excellent aftermarket stuff. Won't listen.......it's a collector he says.

My view is that 99% of Turbo Regals are drivers....very nice drivers, but just drivers. They built enough GNX's that are now permanent garage queens to satisfy the serious collector market for years to come. All of us with the regular GN's and T-Types have drivers, so mod and enjoy them at will, and don't get too anal about the collectivity of the things because there were just way too many built, and they're relatively easy to get. I mean I can buy a mint '87 GN with 2000 original miles ( basicly brand new) right now cheeper, and likely as fast as a 2006 Chevy Monte Carlo. To me this does not even remotely constitute a collector. Love driving the things like I do. Cheers........and flame at will.

 

[TClassic]

Yea, that makes sense They built about 200,000 67 GTO's too, and now a MINT 2000 mile one goes for ~$750,000 - A MILLION!!!! Dude your Logic on this is WAYYY OFF!

 

[Skids]

Most GTO's and other "gas guzzlers" were killed off in the oil crunch of the early 70's......very few people appriciated these modern day ledgends as collectors during these years. The GTO comeback didn't occur until the mid-1980's and prices then rose very slowly. Only in the 2000's have prices on muscle cars really taken off. Why is the GTO sought after (meaning bring a larger dollar) more than the GN's??? Is it a better car? Faster? Rarer? The "Muscle Era" of the late 1960's had a "mistique" about it that encompassed every North American car manufacturer. Buick, Pontiac, Chevrolet, AMC, Ford and Chrysler all had 60's ledgends.

Along came the 1980's....in Buick's company was the Pontiac GTA, Chrysler Datona Turbo 2.2, Mustang 5.0, Turbo Sprint, IROC, and the wheezy L98 TPI Corvette. These were depressing times, hadly a performance "Era". Not a single North American car was factory rated over 250 H.P. The Turbo Buick was certianly a shining star (truely and exception) in a sea of duds.....(mabey the 5.0 was as well). My point is that there are enough people storing mint low mile GN and GNX's (they appear on E-Bay every day) that the rest of us can enjoy these cars for what they were initially intended.......to drive and make fast.

 

[UNGN]

in 1987, we bought a 1970 440-6 'cuda with 27K miles on it for $6,500.

Today, that car would have been $65,000, minimum, IF the guy would have sold it to us.

There were about 20,000 'Cuda's built in 1970.

Note how 17 years after it was built, its value in real dollars was still much less than its original purchase price ($4,400).

GN's will be worth MUCH more than they currently are at some point in the future. When that point is, I can't say. What I can say is "don't you wish you had bought that 17 year old 'Cuda?"

 

[Skids]

........to further my point. A 1967 GTO is about 40 years old. A 1987 GNX is about 20 years old. Take the $60,000 for the GNX, plus 20 years of storage insurance, plus the 20 year climate controlled storage cost, invest this money properly today and see what it's worth in 2026. I doubt you would argue which is the better investment. Drive the things!!!

 

[UNGN]

If your point is buying a car not to drive is dumb, then I agree with you. If your point is to buy a GN for your daily driver, I'll go along with that, too.

If you are trying to say regular GN's "Won't be selling for $30K, 5 years from now" then that is where I can't follow you. Whether it's 5 or 10 years from now, I can't say, but low mile GN's WILL be regularly selling for $30K. It is only a matter of time.

Even with the huge store house of "zero mile" '87's out there (I'd guess around 100-200 still exist), when they are gone, they are gone for good, and the prices will really start to climb.

 

[salvageV6]

I agree live in the present, if you needed a car to drive what's better a mostly mint low mile $18K GN or a used toyota camry.

No brainer....

I wonder what some of these garage queen dudes actually drive 9 months out of the year?

I smile everyday I get to drive mine, and she ain't too pretty either.

It'll be supply and demand per usual what they are worth in the future, even at $30K that should buy you a good car that will live 20 years in the rust belt.

Beats driving a pickup truck.

This thread is much better than that other one.....

 

[Skids]

I'm not saying they won't be worth $30,000 in a few years.........they could be worth more...or less. (I hope more because I have a couple) Investments are not without risk. My belief is buying a car as a pure investment is foolhardy.

Look at the GNX only forum, it's kind of sad........no it's very sad. People have nothing to say about these cars -for the most part- because most are not enjoying them as they should be. Those things are sitting in the dark with car covers on them because of their percieved future "value". The people having all the fun are those that are not afraid to drive and modify them. We're the people building and maintaining the ledgend on the street, not the GNX guys. The GN, stock was a somewhat sedate (but fun) low 14 second car......with a couple of hundred dollars in bolt-ons and a little tuning and they're a 12 second car and a blast to drive. The GNX forum claims "...for the fortunate 547 only....." it must be a lonely boring club based on the number of posts. Don't get me wrong I would love to own a GNX.........but if I wasn't going to drive it, it would be sold in a heartbeat and I'd buy some land or something. It's a lot less depressing looking at a piece of land doing nothing and appriciating in value that a thing of beauty designed to thrill doing nothing. :frown:

 

[UNGN]

Look at the GNX only forum, it's kind of sad........no it's very sad. People have nothing to say about these cars -for the most part- because most are not enjoying them as they should be.

The GNX forum started last week. Kind of like you.

Lots of people on this board actually drive their GNX's. I drove my '71 Cuda convertible until I couldn't stand it anymore. That doesn't mean I didn't get 4X what I paid for it when I sold it, and could get 10X today.

 

[vette0912]

I am split on this subject. Believe me my car by no means is a garage queen, but a weekend toy. Mileage is not my concern and nor was it when I was shopping for my gn. But I somewhat :biggrin: when I see b weavy and others post that they had just bought another parts car. All you hear is cha ching. (One less turbo regal) :frown: i might be wrong on my #'s but I dont think that 28000 is alot for 5 years of production. imo

 

[zeus87gn]

Damn, it's good to be able to express your opinion. Here's mine to go with it.

Value is all relative. A vehicle is only worth what someone will give you for it. If it isn't for sale, it doesn't matter. If Turbo Regal's go up in value, great. If they don't, so what. As long as I can get parts, it will stay on the road. Collectors value? Not at this stage of the game for us. All personal value.

My wife and I love driving our GN. We love taking care of it too. More importantly, we love it even more when someone sees it and knows what it is. I just made 5 guys at the car wash drool today when I drove up and asked for the complete cleaning. They couldn't wait to do it. That type of value will never depreciate!

 

[TurboRegal84]

The GNX forum is NOT for only GNX owners...It is open to anyone!

As with anything...some people get enjoyment out of driving their cars while others enjoy the investment perspective of owning a GNX. Will their increasing value keep up with inflation? Who Knows...but sometimes having a nice car to enjoy is better than earning money via interest in a bank!

 

[Black Box]

The bottom line is this: You buy the car, you can do whatever the hell you want with it. Drive it, garage it, back half it, or beat the crap out of it until it pukes out an expensive part. It's your car. Screw anyone who tries to dictate what you should do with it. Hell, even if I had an original ZL1 Camaro, LS6 Chevelle, W-30 442 or some other rare car, you bet your ass I'd have it out on the dragstrip with a set of slicks, seeing what it can do. Purists would lose their minds, but guess what....they didn't pay for it....and I'd want to know what I got for my money! :biggrin:

As for what they're worth, like zeus said, value is relative. I paid $12,500 for my GN, and turned down an offer for $14,500, even without all the aftermarket parts I have on it. Glad I kept it. No one could offer me enough money to part with it now....well OK, they could, but it would have to be a lot of money....more than any sane person would pay for a 39K mile GN. I only put about 3000 miles on it each year, and I don't care what it's "worth", or what anyone says, I'm drivin' it (but it'll NEVER see snow or rain), and modding it the way I see fit, to fit my needs and personal taste, and racing it. If/when it hits 100K miles, I'll step back, look at it and *sigh*, and say "You're gettin' old bitch!" :biggrin: And I'll remember all the fun I had accumulating all those miles.

The "depressing" 80's were the beginning of the resurrection of American performance. They're very different from the musclecars of the 60's, so it's difficult to make a direct comparison. In some ways they are better, in some ways they're not. Still, the Turbo Buick will always be a shining star in the performance universe.

Steve

 

[strikeeagle]

The simple answer is there's a different answer for everyone, and that's what makes the world go round.

No one can predict the future.

I dare say folks who invest in trailer queens feel pride of ownership. Otherwise, they'd buy pork bellies.

It is my opinion that TRs are niche cars. They are both similar and distinctly different from the muscle cars of the 60s. Profoundly different first and foremost in that they are V6s. Equally significant, that they do not enjoy the demographics of 60s muscle cars.

I maintain that the beauty of these cars is that for a "reasonable" investment in bolt-ons and having a little mechanical aptitude they can be transformed into the "illusion" of an 11 second car right off the showroom floor. That is the course I have taken with my GN. You may feel otherwise, but there's plenty of room in this community to pursue anyone's preferences.

strike

 

[at7we2]

skip this post if you don't like novels - I rambled!

ok, I've wrestled with this issue some myself so I decided to chime in...

first, I agree with those of you who said value is relative. it's pretty simple logic that any material item or commodity is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. as for the value of turbo Regals, I personally don't ever see them appreciating in value nearly as much as the older cars we see now. I think one of the biggest limiting factors is the complexity. I believe one of the reasons the older cars have such a following now is because they represent, among other things, a simpler time. I believe the electronics found on most cars produced from about 1980 and later are just too much hassle, not to mention all that "stuff" detracts from the underhood asthetics -I mean really, which engine bay has a better "drool-factor", a '69 Z-28 or a 2002 Z-28?? it doesn't matter that the 2000 model will outperform the '69 in pretty much every aspect.

but underhood asthetics are only part of the equation. Of course my theory also relates to parts availability. Things may be different if the the aftermarket companies (like YearOne and Original Parts Group) start cranking out a good supply of quality repro. parts then I think more people will take an interest in restoring and maintaing these cars. Now please don't misunderstand that comment - I believe our current aftermarket vendors provide some *excellent* quality parts and, in many cases far exceeding OEM- but as you know, there are many parts which are rapidly becoming very difficult if not impossible to find.

Now, increasing the availability of parts may seem counter-productive to increasing value, but I think the key is increasing or at least maintaing *interest* in the turbo Buicks. That's not to say I really want to see the values skyrocket to insane levels like 60's and 70's muscle cars have recently, but I definately don't want to see interest wane to the point where all you have left are a few patchwork, pieced-together beaters and the collector "garage queens" that rarely see the light of day. In my opinion, the more rare our cars become, the more forgotten they become also. That can be fun at stoplight or car hangout, but the more they are forgotten the more likely they are to fade out of existance. Think about this...everybody knows what a '69 Camaro is, but what percentage of those same people know what "Grand Nationals" and especially "T-types" are. You might be surprised how few actually do. There are several reasons for that but I won't go into what I think they are in this post - the bottem line is, there's just not as much interest because so few people even know what they are. A good supply of replacement parts will keep more cars togther and "on the road" even if that only means as a weekend cruiser. More turbo Buicks on the road means more enthusiasts in the marketplace.

Ok, I'm done rambling. And I didn't even get into my own personal experiences with "drivers" and "show queeens".

Rob

 

[UNGN]

When I drove my '71 cuda in the 80's NOBODY knew what it was. I had punk kids come up to me and tell me "your car aint Sh1t" and the proceed to brag about how much their dad's "K" code mustang was worth. I knew what it was and what it was worth (more than a damn 289 mustang coupe), but had zero idea the value would go up 10X in the last 20 years.

Even into the late 90's ONLY hardcore mopar guys could tell a '71 Cuda from a challenger. Then came Nash Bridges and now everyone knows what a '71 'cuda is. This shows it doesn't take anything more than a bad TV show to turn a car from complete obscurity to a "must have".

People who KNOW cars know what a grand national is. EVERY kid that owned a 5.0 in the late 80's and early 90's that EVER took it to the dragstrip KNOWS what a GN is. Those same kids will be turning 40 over the next 10 years and will be looking for a "hobby car" to relive their youth with (and share it with their Teenage kids).

Their "youth" DID NOT involve '69 Camaros, but it DID involve getting their ass kicked at the drag strip by a GN.

 

[at7we2]

...Even into the late 90's ONLY hardcore mopar guys could tell a '71 Cuda from a challenger. .

oh come on, I knew the difference between a Barracuda and a Challenger by the time I was 12. (of course, I *was* really obsessed with cars at a very early age :wink: )

Then came Nash Bridges and now everyone knows what a '71 'cuda is. This shows it doesn't take anything more than a bad TV show to turn a car from complete obscurity to a "must have".

most definately.

People who KNOW cars know what a grand national is. EVERY kid that owned a 5.0 in the late 80's and early 90's that EVER took it to the dragstrip KNOWS what a GN is. .

I disagree there. I meet "car guys" all the time that just didn't pay that close attention to anything other than what they were interested in at the time or just don't remember the turbo Buicks. More people remember the Monte Carlo SS's. Once I even had a guy ask me what happened to the original engine in my car ('87 GN). When I told him it *is* the original engine, he said "no, all 442's came with v8's" (obviously, he wasn't the brightest bulb in the box, especially considering my car had all the original badges on it.)

Their "youth" DID NOT involve '69 Camaros, but it DID involve getting their ass kicked at the drag strip by a GN.

I didn't say everyone's youth involved '69 Camaros, just the opposite. My point was, even though they didn't know about old Camaroswhen they were really young, they were familiar with them by the time they were in their 20's if not sooner - due largly (as you pointed out) to Holywood exposure. And I can assure you there were plenty of young car guys who made it all the way through their "youth" without getting their butts kicked by a turbo Buick.

I graduated from high school in 1990 so the last ones to roll off the assembly line were three years old (ok 2 1/2 for the "late run" cars). That would have been when they were the most plentiful yet it was a big deal to see one on the street. You just didn't see that many and I lived in Houston, Tx (lots of cars, people and plenty of money). I was pretty big into the street racing scene in about '92-'94 (Westheimer, Rankin Road, etc) and you did see a lot more Buicks at the street races by then, but they were still somewhat rare. Occasionally, they would show up in force and that was a sight to see - but it didn't happen very often. Usually, it was alllll about the Mustangs. And all too often, when a Buick or two did show up, they were hot-air cars and at that time, the hot-airs just werent' able to put on much of a show. I can remember more than one instance of overhearing a whole group of people "disrespecting" a Grand National because they watched a hot-air car get slaughtered by a Fox body Mustang with a few bolt-ons.

I believe someone else pointed out that the turbo Buicks are "niche" cars. I guess that's a more concise way to say what I've been trying to. They are "niche" cars that appeal to a quirky group of people (I'm proud to be one of them :biggrin: ) but they are not recognized or appreciated by the majority of car enthusiasts and probably never will be. Hell, even Buick and GM "orphaned" them!

 

[UNGN]

Houston is not a typical GN city. Could you even buy a Black car there in the eighties?

With GM's paint problems, I wouldn't want to be the dealer that had a lot full of cars with bad paint.

In DFW there would be 2 or 3 everytime I went to the track during the late 80's, early 90's. I had a 5.0 and I hated racing them.

 

[VinsGN]

“Trailer Queens” will always appreciate and be worth $$$$.

As for the rest of us our values will increase in proportion with the “Trailer Queens” until a point. That point being when parts availability becomes an issue. Once the parts disappear and/or become excessively expensive then anything less than a Trailer Queen is now just a “parts car”. Without parts driver examples or GN’s with miles can’t be keep on the road and/or restored.

Look at the parts for sale forum, just in the last month there have been a couple fairly low mile GN’s that have had their registered donor card cashed in. Even the low mileage cars are starting to be worth more in parts then together.

 

[at7we2]

“Trailer Queens” will always appreciate and be worth $$$$.

As for the rest of us our values will increase in proportion with the “Trailer Queens” until a point. That point being when parts availability becomes an issue. Once the parts disappear and/or become excessively expensive then anything less than a Trailer Queen is now just a “parts car”. Without parts driver examples or GN’s with miles can’t be keep on the road and/or restored.

Look at the parts for sale forum, just in the last month there have been a couple fairly low mile GN’s that have had their registered donor card cashed in. Even the low mileage cars are starting to be worth more in parts then together.

YUP!!! that's what I was trying to say.