want to upgrade TA-49, need major advice

[89mulletbird]

So, I think my bottleneck MIGHT be my turbo, I know people are running faster than me with a TA-49, but I really don't know what else to do at this point. The best I've ran is 12.08 @ 109 w/ 1.6 60ft at 24# boost.

My current setup is basically

Stock motor/heads
3200 Art Carr 9" converter
3" THDP
3" Dynomax exhaust
36# blue tops
TA-49
Hallman boost controller
Razor Progressive Alky
Dutt neck
58mm TB
RJC powerplate
AFPR
Hotwired high flow fuel pump
Turbotweak 91octane alky chip
..I think that's it

I do have boost gauge, knock gauge and scanmaster.

Should my next step be a turbo upgrade, 50lb injectors, and a new chip?

If so, I have NO CLUE about turbos. I would want something that would bolt in where my TA-49 resides with minimal fabrication. Can someone please educate me slightly in what would be "bolt on" for a turbo upgrade, thanks!

 

[HUMBLE-U2]

Ta49

WITH YOURE MODS A PT6152 TURBO WOULD WORK FINE

 

[Steve]

I don't think the turbo is holding you back. I went 11.97 @ 113 with a stock turbo, injectors, and unmodded stock intercooler and others have gone faster than me with stock parts. Have you replaced your valve springs?

 

[89mulletbird]

Yeah forgot to mention I installed 100# springs this spring also.

Here is a dyno from BEFORE I installed the 100# springs:

 

[bison]

What are your a/f's? You should be able to go 115+mph if you dial it in. Make sure have all the basics covered like tps set, plugs gapped correctly, good wires, and 1 MAF screen removed. The 3200 AC converter is way more than needed. I just pulled the TE44 off my car the other day and it was the fastest ive ever had a car spool with a 9.5in 2800stall AC converter. It would spool in a couple tenths of a second. Whats your eighth to quarter mph gain? Id go for a wideband datalogger next for easy tuning.

 

[89mulletbird]

My 1/8 mile is 7.6 @ 88.6 I'm definitely lacking the 2nd half of the 1/4 mile.

I raced a 2007 M5 tonight and I pulled on him until about 90MPH then he got me...

Correction, my 12.08 run was only at 107MPH. That's the slowest MPH I've ever seen for that time.

I dont know my a/f's.. I just know my Scanmaster shows about 790mV at the end of the 1/4 mile. It might be running rich.

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

I think the problem might be in the torque converter. Too loose for the nice combo you have put together. Have you tried running the car with the stock D5 converter? A tighter lockup converter that's locked up on the run should get that MPH & times up where they need to be.

 

[TurboDave]

So, I think my bottleneck MIGHT be my turbo, I know people are running faster than me with a TA-49, but I really don't know what else to do at this point. The best I've ran is 12.08 @ 109 w/ 1.6 60ft at 24# boost.

My current setup is basically

Stock motor/heads
3200 Art Carr 9" converter
3" THDP
3" Dynomax exhaust
36# blue tops
TA-49
Hallman boost controller
Razor Progressive Alky
Dutt neck
58mm TB
RJC powerplate
AFPR
Hotwired high flow fuel pump
Turbotweak 91octane alky chip
..I think that's it

I do have boost gauge, knock gauge and scanmaster.

Should my next step be a turbo upgrade, 50lb injectors, and a new chip?

If so, I have NO CLUE about turbos. I would want something that would bolt in where my TA-49 resides with minimal fabrication. Can someone please educate me slightly in what would be "bolt on" for a turbo upgrade, thanks!

In looking at what you're running, you're really not that far off. The only limiting factors are the stock long block (don't worry, mines's bone stock also), and the 91 octane chip. If you like TT chips that's cool, but if you want to run the high boost you're running and turn in better numbers a good race chip would help. Most of the difference would be in the higher timing and fueling.
Our combo's are a whole lot different except for my PTE44, and I had to move up to MSD 50's. Prior to the injectors, a larger LS1 MAF, and more radical timing, I was right there where you are.
While you're running high boost and alky, I run high boost and race gas (no real difference). You just need to get the timing UP to go along with the boost.
Example: In race trim, I run 114 gas, and turn the boost up to 27, and the timing is bumped up to over 25° (depending on conditions).
In street trim, I run 93 octane and 20# of boost and 17° of timing.
The difference means I go from 11.67, to 12.50's. Race chips or equivalent equipment to control the parameters can do wonders.

 

[vacuum 6]

Turn up the boost, do you gain MPH?

 

[QUIP'6']

So, I think my bottleneck MIGHT be my turbo, I know people are running faster than me with a TA-49, but I really don't know what else to do at this point. The best I've ran is 12.08 @ 109 w/ 1.6 60ft at 24# boost.

My current setup is basically

Stock motor/heads
3200 Art Carr 9" converter
3" THDP
3" Dynomax exhaust
36# blue tops
TA-49
Hallman boost controller
Razor Progressive Alky
Dutt neck
58mm TB
RJC powerplate
AFPR
Hotwired high flow fuel pump
Turbotweak 91octane alky chip
..I think that's it

I do have boost gauge, knock gauge and scanmaster.

Should my next step be a turbo upgrade, 50lb injectors, and a new chip?

If so, I have NO CLUE about turbos. I would want something that would bolt in where my TA-49 resides with minimal fabrication. Can someone please educate me slightly in what would be "bolt on" for a turbo upgrade, thanks!

i just ran a 12.15 at 107.1 1.68 60 foot this is 25/21 25 psi 92 degrees at 100% humidity i think your close

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

In looking at what you're running, you're really not that far off. The only limiting factors are the stock long block (don't worry, mines's bone stock also), and the 91 octane chip. If you like TT chips that's cool, but if you want to run the high boost you're running and turn in better numbers a good race chip would help. Most of the difference would be in the higher timing and fueling.
Our combo's are a whole lot different except for my PTE44, and I had to move up to MSD 50's. Prior to the injectors, a larger LS1 MAF, and more radical timing, I was right there where you are.
While you're running high boost and alky, I run high boost and race gas (no real difference). You just need to get the timing UP to go along with the boost.
Example: In race trim, I run 114 gas, and turn the boost up to 27, and the timing is bumped up to over 25° (depending on conditions).
In street trim, I run 93 octane and 20# of boost and 17° of timing.
The difference means I go from 11.67, to 12.50's. Race chips or equivalent equipment to control the parameters can do wonders.

I think the fact that he is running a 91 Octane "ALKY" chip was overlooked in your tuning suggestions?? TT sets the Alky chips up with higher timing & he should be able to run similar times as a race chip combo when tuned.

Have you tried lowering the boost & bumping the timing on your combo Turbo Dave? It might go faster?

 

[bison]

In looking at what you're running, you're really not that far off. The only limiting factors are the stock long block (don't worry, mines's bone stock also), and the 91 octane chip. If you like TT chips that's cool, but if you want to run the high boost you're running and turn in better numbers a good race chip would help. Most of the difference would be in the higher timing and fueling.
Our combo's are a whole lot different except for my PTE44, and I had to move up to MSD 50's. Prior to the injectors, a larger LS1 MAF, and more radical timing, I was right there where you are.
While you're running high boost and alky, I run high boost and race gas (no real difference). You just need to get the timing UP to go along with the boost.
Example: In race trim, I run 114 gas, and turn the boost up to 27, and the timing is bumped up to over 25° (depending on conditions).
In street trim, I run 93 octane and 20# of boost and 17° of timing.
The difference means I go from 11.67, to 12.50's. Race chips or equivalent equipment to control the parameters can do wonders.

The chip is adjustable. If he runs 25 psi and his a/f is 11.5:1 i doubt he wont gain much from any other chip. I think hes rich and got some other problem up top though since the mph is so low. It should be at least 110 mph.

 

[bison]

My 1/8 mile is 7.6 @ 88.6 I'm definitely lacking the 2nd half of the 1/4 mile.

I raced a 2007 M5 tonight and I pulled on him until about 90MPH then he got me...

Correction, my 12.08 run was only at 107MPH. That's the slowest MPH I've ever seen for that time.

I dont know my a/f's.. I just know my Scanmaster shows about 790mV at the end of the 1/4 mile. It might be running rich.

Try taking out a little fuel, locking the converter and run in 60-70 degree weather. Id bet you will pick up mph. Post your mph and rpm as you cross the line. We can look at slip % and see if your locking up or not. Id look at getting a wideband datalogger too.

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

Is the Art Carr converter being used a non lock unit? 9" 3200

 

[TurboDave]

I think the fact that he is running a 91 Octane "ALKY" chip was overlooked in your tuning suggestions?? TT sets the Alky chips up with higher timing & he should be able to run similar times as a race chip combo when tuned.

Have you tried lowering the boost & bumping the timing on your combo Turbo Dave? It might go faster?

You're right, I saw the "91 octane tt chip" but for some reason assumed 93 octane was available up there in PA.

As for boost and timing, trust me, after having raced this car for 21 years now, I know it intimately, and what it responds best to. I've been through every tuning scenario there is, mostly to experiment, and a lot just to debunk urban legands. Boost makes more hp than timing! On mine anyway. I literally have hundreds of test runs on this car, not counting the bracket racing I do, and testing every timing/boost combination the car would handle in 1° and 1# incraments.

My car obviously isn't the fastest. :biggrin: but it does pretty well for what it is. And I've learned a little bit about it and it's sister 87 having raced them for over 20 years now. :wink:
I only hope to help folks with realistic information, and try not to get their hopes overly pumped.
I honestly think for what's done to his car, his numbers are right on. Will a new turbo help? sure. When I moved from my TA49 (on the 87 now) to my present PTE44, that's what got me into the 11's. Bumped the injectors up from 40's to 50's, got into the 11.80's (after re-tuning of course), bumped up from an LT1 maf to an LS1 maf and dropped into the 11.60's (again after re-tuning for the better parts)

My only implication was, that the "average" turbo regal, with a TA49 and equiped like his should be running just about where he is. I think to imply that the 49 is presently holding him back is a misnomer. Kinda hard to explain what I mean, "know what ah mean vern"? :wink:

 

[Pronto]

I vote a loose converter issue.

 

[TurboDave]

I vote a loose converter issue.

You mean you think 109 is too slow for a 12 oh run??
I thought that was pretty darn good, especially for a non lockup converter.

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

You're right, I saw the "91 octane tt chip" but for some reason assumed 93 octane was available up there in PA.

As for boost and timing, trust me, after having raced this car for 21 years now, I know it intimately, and what it responds best to. I've been through every tuning scenario there is, mostly to experiment, and a lot just to debunk urban legands. Boost makes more hp than timing! On mine anyway. I literally have hundreds of test runs on this car, not counting the bracket racing I do, and testing every timing/boost combination the car would handle in 1° and 1# incraments.

My car obviously isn't the fastest. :biggrin: but it does pretty well for what it is. And I've learned a little bit about it and it's sister 87 having raced them for over 20 years now. :wink:
I only hope to help folks with realistic information, and try not to get their hopes overly pumped.
I honestly think for what's done to his car, his numbers are right on. Will a new turbo help? sure. When I moved from my TA49 (on the 87 now) to my present PTE44, that's what got me into the 11's. Bumped the injectors up from 40's to 50's, got into the 11.80's (after re-tuning of course), bumped up from an LT1 maf to an LS1 maf and dropped into the 11.60's (again after re-tuning for the better parts)

My only implication was, that the "average" turbo regal, with a TA49 and equiped like his should be running just about where he is. I think to imply that the 49 is presently holding him back is a misnomer. Kinda hard to explain what I mean, "know what ah mean vern"? :wink:

I wasn't knocking your car or combo but i have seen some cars pick up with more timing & little less boost on these little turbo's we are running. I've been playing with these cars also for 20 years & have figured 1 or 2 things out myself. More parts in your signature does not always equal a faster car! If you needed 50# injectors to run 11.80's something is seriously wrong. I've run 10.70's on the same injector.

The bottom line is this car should be running over 109 mph & it's probally a loose converter holding it back. Watch the mph JUMP with a lockup unit.

 

[TurboDave]

I wasn't knocking your car or combo but i have seen some cars pick up with more timing & little less boost on these little turbo's we are running. I've been playing with these cars also for 20 years & have figured 1 or 2 things out myself. More parts in your signature does not always equal a faster car! If you needed 50# injectors to run 11.80's something is seriously wrong. I've run 10.70's on the same injector.

The bottom line is this car should be running over 109 mph & it's probally a loose converter holding it back. Watch the mph JUMP with a lockup unit.

I have no doubt that 50's would cut 11ohs or quicker. But I seriously doubt that the combination you're refering to is like mine. You have to keep in mind, that my motor is bone stock, every bit of it. Except the 50's, the TE44 and intercooler.
With MY motor the 40's were all used up at 12.00 (120% duty cycle). I'm much more comfortable running the 50's at 80% duty cycle (the ideal range).

 

[Pronto]

You mean you think 109 is too slow for a 12 oh run??
I thought that was pretty darn good, especially for a non lockup converter.

No, but my friends TTA is running the same ET with a stock turbo and converter (locked mph is about 110 I think) with alky. I would expect a TA49 to be faster (in a TTA) and it should mph alittle more than a stock turbo. Every car is different and will respond different as well. His times are definately nothing to sneer at. Maybe a locking converter would bring up the mph.