What a suprise I got

[Joe 1320]

I bought a bloack, and rotating assembly from this thread:

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/parts-sale/280509-109-block-crank-rods-pistons.html

I hired Don Cruz to do my build. This is a street engine and not a race motor, the car will never see the track. Well...... the rods are incorrectly sized, the crank is mushroomed on the snout from a loose balancer, the cam isn't a comp cams and in fact the numbers don't seem to match anything.

After a phone conversation, a couple PMs and an e-mail, I'm told that:
"Look You and I know you came here and looked at everything and bought what you looked at, It's just that simple!. I'm not out to screw ANYONE and I never would have nor did I try to hide anything from you. The rods being out of spec, I didn't know about and I WILL pay to have them resized because I didn't know about that. Joe you bought a 20/30 under engine and took it to the best and most reputable engine builder around and because he won't use those parts for his builds ISN'T MY FAULT. Don builds solid 9 sec engines his way and has a very meticulous regiment on how he does it. Tons of cranks have been repaired in the past and that isn't the first time that has happened to one.. I don't want to get into a pissing match nor want to argue over this, I will pay for the resizing of the rods. If Don doesn't want to do that, That's not my fault! That is his decision as a builder.. That doesn't mean they are junk!

I have the balancer here that was in my cabinet that I forgot to give you, I will bring this to BG along with the lifters and $200 and give it to Don and that's all I can do..


So.... the cam isn't a comp cams, it's evidently not his fault.
The crank is mushroomed and that was never mentioned...... try to see that with your eyes and not a micrometer. The rods are incorrectly sized. your offer to make good is touching but sizing them even larger made Don cringe and he doesn't recommend these even for a street motor.

So there is strike one, two and three....... you see, it's all my fault for believing in a supposed trusted member. Ironically, both Don and I thought that he simply never checked things from the machine shop. After the last e-mail with an attitude, I have lost all respect for this member.

let the buyer beware.

 

[scot w.]

Hi Joe,

Everyone here is the other side of the story!

Here is a e-mail reply from me to Joe:


Joe,

I've asked you what you would like me to do and in THREE conversations One by phone and two by PM's and You never mentioned what you wanted me to do so that leaves me with what I think is fair without your input.

For starters Joe I NEVER MISREPRESENTED THE "ROD'S" Because I didn't physically know about issue with the rods until they were measured!! How can something be misrepresented when it's not known about?

Two, I NEVER misrepresented the cam either! I stood in my garage and told
you face to face that " IT MIGHT BE A COMP CAMS AND THAT I WASN'T SURE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO MARKINGS, REMEMBER?
I guess I should have not forgot to add the "?" after (comp-cams) in my thread...

So that leaves the crank which YOU physically looked at and bought.....

Joe I have absolutely have no clue what you would like done because you never said anything or gave your input but your upset when I tell you what I offer to do.

In our First conversation when you told me about this issue I asked you " What do you want me to do? I will be in BG in 10 days, You want me to look for a crank and rods? Your reply was " No, I'm going to look in my garage and Don's going to look in his but I will have don call you." That was my first attempt!

Second attempt was to pay for the rods to be resized and you don't like that either!

So at this point i've offered to look for a new crank & rods ( You said NO!) And didn't hear from you for days!
and secondly I offered to pay to have the rods resized and then you come here....

I offered this because neither of us knew about the rods being out of spec. This was done by the machine shop but I offered to pay to have them resized.

Either way Joe you looked at Everything and could have walked away from it or not bought sertian stuff if you didn't like it.

I'm at a loss here... Trying to please you was a guessing game, It's hard to please someone when you don't know what they like!!



Scot W.

 

[DONNIE BROOKS]

offering to make it right

thats more than most can expect,i have delt with scott on many parts and have several of his new products on my car ,he has always been a stand up guy ,he has never missled me ,we have all had bad luck with used parts ,i bought a turbo once suppost to be rebuilt ,installed turbo ,seal was bad ,the guy said sorry you bought it,it is yours ,i have read this twice,and i cant understand if you want it to be right, why you wont tell him what you want him to do. and to go on the board and post negative feedback ,if i were him i would not do anything now! i would hope that most people reading this will see that HE OFFERED TO MAKE IT RIGHT ,hell some people would rather slander someones good name rather than make it right! just my 2 cent on this matter! this just does not add up?

 

[GNBRETT]

The other side of the story sounds compelling.

 

[Joe 1320]

Scot,

The main reason you haven't heard from me is that I've been sick as a dog with the flu and haven't been able to get anything done.

When did I refuse your offer? I certainly didn't do it by phone and I certainly didn't do it via e-mail.

Scot, you said " In our First conversation when you told me about this issue I asked you " What do you want me to do? I will be in BG in 10 days, You want me to look for a crank and rods? Your reply was " No, I'm going to look in my garage and Don's going to look in his but I will have don call you."

What was I supposed to look in my garage for? I'll tell you why I didn't know..... at that point, I didn't know what it would take make things right. Every item one by one was coming up unuseable.

What got me pissed was when you basically said ""Look You and I know you came here and looked at everything and bought what you looked at, It's just that simple!. " you accuse me of getting into a pissing match and matter of factly, TELL me that you'll pay to resize the rods and that's it. The rest isn't your fault. Shouldn't you know what you are selling? I suppose that is a matter of interpretation. I know one thing...... since I know all the pitfalls of these parts, I cannot sell them to anyone else. I know and that's enough for my ethics, I'm stuck with them. It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of principle. Pay Don to resize the rods, include the lifters of the no name cam plus the balancer and I'll just chalk it up to getting burned. All of those parts will be relegated to doorstops from the advice of my builder. At least the block is good.

In the beginning, I thought the problems were purely by accident. The attitude I got from your most recent messages took me by suprise and didn't seem very accomodating at all. So actually, I wasn't too concerned until your latest communication. So if you think it's worth $200, who am I to argue? After all, You knew enough to sell the stuff, I evidently didn't know enough to keep myself from buying a load of crap. Not knowing is such a dangerous frame of mind, isn't it Scot?

 

[Joe 1320]

Oh.... if I had my choice, all of it would end up back on your doorstep and the dough back in my checking account. But... since the block is good, that's doesn't seem fair.

In any case, you TOLD me what you would do and it certainly doesn't seem like there is anything else to be said in the matter.

 

[V8Assassin]

Scot is one of the best guys I have had the pleasure of dealing with on the board. Very Proud to call him my friend!!

Seems like the question is what is the block worth? From the post it appears as though you have 1000 invested, Scot is trying to give you 200 of that back, so that leaves 800 and the block. I would guess the fair price for the block would be at least 400 so that leaves 400. Scot is throwing in a balancer and lifters, assuming they are in good shape what is the problem?

I don't know, I am just saying, Scot has always been a stand up guy. I know for a fact if something is wrong he will go above and beyond to make it right. Personally I wouldn't have bought anything before consulting with my builder first.

 

[scot w.]

Scot,

The main reason you haven't heard from me is that I've been sick as a dog with the flu and haven't been able to get anything done.

This will be my final post regaurding you seeing how you now bashed my name, Called me a liar, Now you can say we are both pissed...

To answer this, How come your fine enough to deliver parts then? Thought you couldn't get anything done?

When did I refuse your offer? I certainly didn't do it by phone and I certainly didn't do it via e-mail.

On the phone just like I said!!! and after that is when don called me and I told him exactly what was said..

Scot, you said " In our First conversation when you told me about this issue I asked you " What do you want me to do? I will be in BG in 10 days, You want me to look for a crank and rods? Your reply was " No, I'm going to look in my garage and Don's going to look in his but I will have don call you."

What was I supposed to look in my garage for? I'll tell you why I didn't know..... at that point, I didn't know what it would take make things right. Every item one by one was coming up unuseable.

I don't know why you said it but you did. You also said you were going to take another girdled 109 block down there too! Why when my block was good? I dodn't know why you said that either. You also failed to mention the heads you got so those must be fine..

What got me pissed was when you basically said ""Look You and I know you came here and looked at everything and bought what you looked at, It's just that simple!. " you accuse me of getting into a pissing match and matter of factly, TELL me that you'll pay to resize the rods and that's it. The rest isn't your fault. Shouldn't you know what you are selling? I suppose that is a matter of interpretation. I know one thing...... since I know all the pitfalls of these parts, I cannot sell them to anyone else. I know and that's enough for my ethics, I'm stuck with them. It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of principle. Pay Don to resize the rods, include the lifters of the no name cam plus the balancer and I'll just chalk it up to getting burned. All of those parts will be relegated to doorstops from the advice of my builder. At least the block is good.

I NEVER accused you of getting into a pissing match!! I simply said that is what I didn't want to get into...

I will now have to really think about paying for anything at this point after publically bashing me, calling me a liar!! Whats weird now is the offer Obviously wasn't good enough for you the first time when I offered a crank & rods NOR the Second time when I offered to pay for the resizing of the rods and you come here and trash me on a public forum NOW IT'S OKAY?? !!

In the beginning, I thought the problems were purely by accident. The attitude I got from your most recent messages took me by suprise and didn't seem very accomodating at all. So actually, I wasn't too concerned until your latest communication. So if you think it's worth $200, who am I to argue? After all, You knew enough to sell the stuff, I evidently didn't know enough to keep myself from buying a load of crap. Not knowing is such a dangerous frame of mind, isn't it Scot?

Thats just it Joe, IT WAS BY "ACCIDENT" AS I DON'T EVEN HAVE THE TOOLS TO CHECK THAT!

The answer you got was after me Trying to help solve this and not getting anywhere with you! Then because you have this sixth sence to tell "Attitude" while in writing you come here and post! You know what they say about "ASSUME" right?

"I wasn't too concerned until your latest communication". LOL That was obvious! But I still tried to give some or any kind of solution. Now I guess I just have to calm down and see.....
Thanks Joe!

 

[scot w.]

Oh.... if I had my choice, all of it would end up back on your doorstep and the dough back in my checking account. But... since the block is good, that's doesn't seem fair.

In any case, you TOLD me what you would do and it certainly doesn't seem like there is anything else to be said in the matter.

Now your choices come out? OMG....


I'm done posting......

 

[DONNIE BROOKS]

too sick to call

but not to sick to post negative feedback,still dont add up to me ,again never had a problem with GNS performance, bought heads ,balancer,exhaust manifold,flywheel,valve covers,upper plenum,tail lights ,fender braces,air box in kit,last week,several pro comp gauges, any way this 1 post will not keep me from buying from scott. may be next time you should decide what makes it right,before you throw someone under the bus. like WHAT A SURPRISE I GOT

 

[Joe 1320]

but not to sick to post negative feedback,still dont add up to me ,again never had a problem with GNS performance, bought heads ,balancer,exhaust manifold,flywheel,valve covers,upper plenum,tail lights ,fender braces,air box in kit,last week,several pro comp gauges, any way this 1 post will not keep me from buying from scott. may be next time you should decide what makes it right,before you throw someone under the bus. like WHAT A SURPRISE I GOT

No suprise that you are right next door to Scot and are friends. It's not rocket science there. Please don't add fuel to the fire and let Scot and I work it out. I don't appreciate my health being called into question.

 

[Joe 1320]

. Personally I wouldn't have bought anything before consulting with my builder first.

Yep, You're right. Unfortunatly I didn't hire Don until after the fact. :redface:

 

[V8Assassin]

Yep, You're right. Unfortunatly I didn't hire Don until after the fact. :redface:

Well, you definetely made the right decision there. Don and I have been working together for over a year on my program. He is the best!!! A true perfectionist!!!


IMHO, don't give up on Scot, I have never seen him let a customer leave unsatisfied! I'm sure he will make this right for you!!

 

[Joe 1320]

Well, you definetely made the right decision there. Don and I have been working together for over a year on my program. He is the best!!! A true perfectionist!!!


IMHO, don't give up on Scot, I have never seen him let a customer leave unsatisfied! I'm sure he will make this right for you!!

That's great to hear about Don. I knew I had the right man after a little research and looking over his setup. That's a kick arse car.

I never gave up on Scot, it's the direction that took a U turn that stunned me like an episode of the twilight zone.